Installation Assistance: Broken exhaust manifold studs [Merged 4-8]

[jfarber]

I am in the middle of installing my EVO mani/Big16g/3 in o2 eliminator setup and ran into 2 broken studs in the head when I was pulling the manifold. We are going to try and EZ out them with the head in the car friday (wife won't let me bond with my car on turkey day). My question specifically is, do i have to go back with the factory studs or can I pull all the studs and use "regular" bolts from ARP or some other similar source?

Thanks.

 

[CrazyUglyCoyote]

Your best bet might be the torch and tap then. Unless you just get the car towed over. Call up the machine shop though and see what they recomend. Ive personally used the torch and tap method when I used to rebuild quad engines.

 

[neuro]

Yeah I have no problem taking the turbine housing to a shop but the head is still attached to the car and I think that is where the real issue will come into play.

Get some good carbide bits and drill it out, then get an M8 Heli-Coil kit to repair the threads. Get new stainless studs while you're at it and replace the whole set. The ones you didn't break taking the manifold off you will break when you try torquing them down (I found this out the hard way).

 

[headrec*]

I was able to remove one of the studs out of the head with a HUGE set of pliers. Sucked balls. I honestly don't think they'll break when I retorque them but if they do then at me.

I think I'm just going to get a good set of bits and a new set of ez outs cause I broke the last one .

I just can't wait to get the car running again. I finally got a new job so I should be able to actually buy the parts to fix it. I think that is/was more of the problem with fixing the car because I wasn't in a hurry to get the bolts/studs out because I knew I didn't have any money to buy the new studs and a couple of other odds and ends to get it back together.

Now it's back to being in a frantic rush to get everything back together.

Keep the suggestions coming.

 

[SethA]

This probably won't work but it is worth a try. I have removed over tightened screws and stripped/broken bolts using a punch and a hammer.

Use a punch or chisel to make a dimple or little notch on the bolt near the edge. After you have a dimple, tip the punch so that you can knock the bolt in the loosen direction. Give it a whack, if you stip the dimple out just put another one in and try again. Like I said this is a long shot but it might save you having to do something drastic.

Good Luck,

Seth

 

[rowlex]

im also trying to remove a broken stud that is flush with the head.... I asked for help on a local board and got some good anserrs...


First, use a cobalt drill bit to drill it, cut through mine like butter.

if the easy out wont work, heat up the head to expand the metal, maybe try jamming some wax into the area around the stud. then continue with the easy out -also, drilling the hole deeper and using a smaller easy out is an option to.

if all that fails(you said you have one you can get pliers on) weld a nut to it and pull it off. good luck!

 

[Defiant]

The VFAQ tells how to remove snapped studs, there's an article about it in our tech section, and it's been discussed and explained dozens of times besides that.

 

[AWDer]

Hello,

Alright, my top left most stud from the exhaust manifold, has snapped off inside the head. I have been trying to decided whether it is worth the money to have a dsm shop remove it or not. There is one local. I could easily get everything I need, but I don't want to mess it up. I also don't want to break one of the other studs while I am at it.

I have all new ss studs to replace them with. I also have a new gasket. I have the time, two whole days actually, but is it really that hard or do I have some hope? I have done all of the other work to my car, so I have at least basic mechanical skill.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[terefic181]

All that needs to be done is drill a hole in the stud with an appropriate size bit and use a matching size Ez-out to turn the stud and remove it. You may need to use a center punch for a starting point in the center portion of the stud. You may also want to choke up on the drill bit (make it very short) to start it. I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I'm sure someone else will.

It all depends on whether your compfortable doing it. Just remember the head is aluminum and much softer than the stud. So make sure you keep the drill pretty straight and centered on the stud.




Tom

 

[dwc4g63]

we'll it's a risk. you could do it right and the stud comes out with no problems. and you saved yourself 50+ bucks, but you could screw it up somehow (even if you are skilled and patient stupid shit happens) and you'll be kickin your own ass for not just letting someone else take care of it. ive done both one time i broke the banjo bolt for the turbo oil feed in the head and raped it so bad i had to relocate the whole thing(blessing in disguise) but then another time i took mine to a shop to have a manifold stud removed and i ended up having my car broken into while at the shop haha. you know your limits, if you have the right tools and patience im sure youll be fine, good luck.

 

[madmader]

hope you have a tap and die set to fix the threads.

 

[BudmannG]

I had a broken stud on my exhaust manifold. I gave my car to my sisters boyfriend (because he is a mechanic). He told me he could fix this one for me. So I worked a trade on a old turbo head that I had. He calls me tonight and tells me that there are three broke. And then says that he can't do it withuot me paying for special drill bits and tools.
My question is, would it be cheaper if I take it off and take it to a machine shop? I also thought it might be a good oppertunity to get the valves and everything redone while it"s there.
Any input would be great.

 

[92awddsm]

Well, hes not a very good mechanic if he cant do it with what he has or at least should have. At most, all you really need is a center drill, titanium nitrided drill bit, an ez out, and a propane torch for worst case senario. You can go to your local home depot, lowes, or most auto suppliers and get all this yourself for less than $50. If he needs special drill bits, its only because he already broke a drill bit or ez out off in the head and then he would need a diamond tipped drill. If thats the case, it would probably be cheaper to pull the head and take it to a machine shop equipped with this type of drill bit. And if he did break something off in the head, have him pay for it since it was his stupidity and inexperince to cause this situation.

 

[92awddsm]

i'm assuming he means an 'easy out bit'...which is like 3 bucks for a craftsman at sears...these just fit into any working drill...not sure what other special tools you would need to buy...a wrench?...

your probably better off having the shop do it if you don't trust your mechanic guy to get the studs out...if he just messes the holes up using his 'special' tools...you'll have to replace the housing...or take it to a machine shop to hopefully get redrilled correctly...

the studs are in your turbo housing by the way...you'll need to unbolt that if you plan on taking it into the machine shop...w/o car of course...

you are talking about the 4 studs ontop of the manifold right?...not the ones that go into the head...

The turbo housing only has 2 studs in it. One is the turbo to manifold stud and the other is the turbo to o2 housing stud. The rest are bolts. When people(most of the time) speak of the ex manifold studs, the are talking about the studs in the head that the manifold mounts to.

 

[tranman91]

The turbo housing only has 2 studs in it. One is the turbo to manifold stud and the other is the turbo to o2 housing stud. The rest are bolts. When people(most of the time) speak of the ex manifold studs, the are talking about the studs in the head that the manifold mounts to.

apparently i deleted my post while editing...but it lives...

anyways...i guess it makes more sense that he's talking about the studs in the head...

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

nope non of those ways are the easiest, u do need a center drill and a drill press but thats it, all you do is clamp your manifold or hold it down to the press table.(make sure the side against the press table is the side that is against the head) quickly but firmly press the center drill to the broken stud with the drill spindle rotating clockwise or what should be forward. Repeat this step 2 or 3 times or untill u notice a burr building up. Now you need to turn your drill press in reverse so its going the opposite way (counterclockwise) Now again press three or four times and the center drill should catch the burr u made the first time and it will unthread itself. The key to this trick is making a good burr while going clockwise and a center drill with sharp flutes. Also lubricants may make this easier. Good luck if you have any more problems get ahold of me. im a machinest so i may be able to hook you up with some tools if you really need them but this should do it.

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

by the way make sure you buy or borrow a carbide center drill

 

[92awddsm]

nope non of those ways are the easiest, u do need a center drill and a drill press but thats it, all you do is clamp your manifold or hold it down to the press table.(make sure the side against the press table is the side that is against the head) quickly but firmly press the center drill to the broken stud with the drill spindle rotating clockwise or what should be forward. Repeat this step 2 or 3 times or untill u notice a burr building up. Now you need to turn your drill press in reverse so its going the opposite way (counterclockwise) Now again press three or four times and the center drill should catch the burr u made the first time and it will unthread itself. The key to this trick is making a good burr while going clockwise and a center drill with sharp flutes. Also lubricants may make this easier. Good luck if you have any more problems get ahold of me. im a machinest so i may be able to hook you up with some tools if you really need them but this should do it.

What the hell are you talking about? Whay would you be drilling in the manifold? The only bolts that scew into the manifold are the heat shield bolts and Im almost positve that is not what he is talking about.

Next problem with what you have to say is that a center drill is used to make a good divit for the standard drill to center on to keep it from walking. If you revese it, you will dull the flutes. You are thinking of swapping in a left handed drill after you center drill it.

And evidently, you arent a very good machinist if that is what you say. I am an ase master automotive machinist(11 yrs) and also worked in a job shop for about 7 yrs. Been there and done that and have had many apprentice that thought the same thing. Pay attention and you will see that your boss will switch from the center drill to the left handed drill before he goes counter clockwise.

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

take it easy buddy it was a simple mistake, your correct about the left hand to right hand if it makes u feel better. I forgot to mention the tool change im sure he would have noticed it. but as far as the broken stud goes he says its stuck in his manifold and this method would work ive seen it done. i dont care if ## a master tech. masterbator whatever u should get your nose out of the air and stop thinking everyone is perfect like yourself. But thanks for correcting my mistake id hate to see him trash a carbide tool, and ## assuming hes trying to get the stud out of the block, im assuming hes getting it out of the manifold when really he needs to get both. so lets not ASSUME it makes an ASS out of U and ME

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

stud out of the head***

 

[BudmannG]

OK, let me clear this up for everyone. My broken studs are in my head 3 of them. one is right behind the power steering pump and the other two are on the passangers side of the car. All of these studs hold my exhaust manifold on. He says that one he could probably get with a torch. And the other two are broke off back in the head were he would have to drill. It scares me to think he told me he could do this and now he can't. Just because they are to be drilled out. I think it's just to much work for him, .
And since I'm getting advice from machinest. What would it cost to get the head redone to make it like new. I was think of having that done anyways. Because I need new valve seals and or guides in it.
And thanks for your help guys.

 

[VETDRMS]

Hi, as some of you may have found, continuous heat cycling (and age), combined with using steel fasteners with aluminum can create a situation that can ruin your day.

This "guide" is going to try to explain clearly how to properly extract broken fasteners.

First, when you are tightening/loosening a bolt/stud you can usually feel its yield point, however, it will break shortly thereafter so if you are tightening/loosening it and for a brief moment it becomes "easy", STOP, and pursue alternate methods of removal.

When you use a steel fastener in aluminum there is a chance it will seize over time which can lead to breakage, or you can pull the threads out of the aluminum. The #1 way to prevent this is to use anti-seize when installing any steel fastener into aluminum, including spark plugs.

Permatex Copper or Silver Anti-Seaze will work:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

OK, so you broke a bolt or stud, you still have some options:

1) Spew profanities profusely.
2) Attempt to "grab" the broken bolt with vice grips, pliers, whatever..
3)
4) Buy a set of Easy-Outs and use the appropriate one for your bolt diameter, and use patience when trying to extract the broken fastener (more on patience later).

There are two types of easy-outs, the first type looks like a square bit with teeth:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The second type is a reverse screw type:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The concept is quite simple, the easy-out has teeth that grip in the counter-clockwise direction (assuming we are working with normal thread fasteners).

Be AWARE that the easy-outs are made of a very hard, tempered steel, but just like the fastener you broke off, they can break too!

OK, so your ready to pull that bolt by now I am sure, but follow these steps and you will not have to learn how incredibly hard those easy-outs really are.

1) Use a flat faced punch to strike the broken fastener. When using steel fasteners in aluminum this should be your first step (this is a good idea when your taking it off in the first place too). This helps to break free the bond that has been made between the threads over time.

2) Apply a good penetrating lubricant and let it soak for a while. Re-apply a few times and let it sit for 30-60 minutes.

3) Use a center punch to set a mark for your drill. Punch the broken fastener in the middle as best you can.

4) Use the appropriate drill size and drill a hole 3/8" or so into the broken fastener making sure to keep your bit lined up with the fastener.

5) Insert extracting tool. If you are using the square type you will set it in with a hammer, it doesn't take a lot to get them set, so a few good raps will get it done. If you are using the screw type they can start themselves, but a light tap will help.

6) Use either HEAT or COLD to prepare the material for extraction. If you have a steel fastener in aluminum you want to heat the aluminum surrounding the broken fastener. A small butane torch works well, but be aware of your surroundings and clean the area of oil buildups before torching it. Alternatively you can use a can of liquid N20 to freeze the fastener, but this will also make it brittle. This will expand the aluminum around the fastener and help to loosen the threads. Heat the area around the broken fastener for 20-30 seconds and then apply some penetrating fluid (PB blaster, or Ultimate Penetrator work great, NOT WD-40 (it is a water dispersant, not a penetrating fluid)). Rap on the fastener a few times between heating/spraying.

7) Begin to turn the easy-out. If it is very difficult and will not budge with moderate pressure, STOP, apply more heat and penetrating fluid, and rap the fastener with a hammer a few times. If you break the easy-out off you will find it is nearly impossible to extract. It will laugh at your titanium drill bits and will make you wish you never put it in there in the first place. So be patient and work it a little bit at a time.

8) Once you get the fastener to move, if it is still difficult to turn, stop every 1-3 turns and re-heat the surrounding area, and try to move it some more.

9) Remove broken fastener and rejoice!

10) Remove easy-out from broken fastener by placing the fastener in a vice/vice grips and turning easy out clockwise, it should break free and you can pull it out.

11) Insert new fastener and check to see if it easily threads in, if it doesn't, use a thread chase to fix the threads, and if your using steel with aluminum, put a dab of anti-seize on the threads first.

I hope this will help next time you test the yield point of an old fastener and your day can be productive instead of frustrating.

:cheers:

 

[forcefed4]

Good post!

broken bolts suck

 

[4thsydecustoms]

awesome info... i broke atleast a dozen bolts in the talon today!!

 

[VETDRMS]

4thsydecustoms A DOZEN?! , have you been keeping that within spraying distance of the sea-shore?

 

[eldiabloz13]

Good post. Now i dont know if anyone has done this but it sounds like it will work. If you have a stud that just wount come out. You tried everything except cutting it cause you know you cant drill that stuff out with any normal bit. So you say screw paying 30 bucks for a titanium bit. Take a welder and take a piece of scrap metal. Weld the scrap metal to the top of the stud. They use that as a sort of leverege. Then the stud will more then likely come out. Now on this method i think the stud can or may break so thats why im posting this here along with this guid just in case it works on some studs and you get to some more and they break you can use the guide above to help even more.