Injector sizing

[defcom2007]

My stock injectors are currently maxed out on my stock 4g63t. Im at 14psi but would like to go up to 20psi until i can afford a 2.3l 6bolt stroker. I have a deatsch werks 320lph pump in tank, no tune currently. Can i go ahead and install 1200cc injectors, to meet my goal of 650hp in the future, on a stock tune without trouble?

Also, would i be able to go to 20psi with those injectors without a tune?

The reason i have no tune is i am saving up for an aem standalone and dont want to spend cash on an intermediate.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

my goal of 650hp in the future on a stock tune

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[defcom2007]

Verbage incorrect sorry, 650hp in the future was a separate idea from 1200cc injectors on stock tune

 

[athlete3344]

Im fairly certain you need to tune with either dsmlink or another similar system if you are going with injectors that big. Either way, if you are trying to get that much HP without tuning, you're probably going to have a bad time.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Verbage incorrect sorry, 650hp in the future was a separate idea from 1200cc injectors on stock tune

You need a way to scale your injectors settings. If everything is stock, except the injectors.. the ECU is going to expect a stock sized shot of fuel each time an injector opens. If you are using an injector ~3 times the size you will be pig rich and create a whole host of issues.

As always.. some research would have lead you to this conclusion. Order of operations for modifications:

1.) Maintenance
2.) See step 1
3.) Wideband UEGO Kit and proper vac/boost gauge
4.) Tuning solution
5.) Fuel
6.) See step 1 again
7.) Boost controller

 

[defcom2007]

Im fairly certain you need to tune with either dsmlink or another similar system if you are going with injectors that big. Either way, if you are trying to get that much HP without tuning, you're probably going to have a bad time.

650hp will come along with the stroker and a tune. Im concerned about the stock 7 bolt with 1200cc injectors @20psi. I dont want to spend money twice on injectors

You need a way to scale your injectors settings. If everything is stock, except the injectors.. the ECU is going to expect a stock sized shot of fuel each time an injector opens. If you are using an injector ~3 times the size you will be pig rich and create a whole host of issues.

As always.. some research would have lead you to this conclusion. Order of operations for modifications:

1.) Maintenance
2.) See step 1
3.) Wideband UEGO Kit and proper vac/boost gauge
4.) Tuning solution
5.) Fuel
6.) See step 1 again
7.) Boost controller

I have a 320lph pump, 20g turbo, cyclone head, gfb gforce2 ebc, lots of maintenance..... Obviously need to start tuning/wideband

 

[cl1ckclack]

Youll need a tune of some sort to run 1200cc injectors, end of story.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

650hp will come along with the stroker and a tune. Im concerned about the stock 7 bolt with 1200cc injectors @20psi. I dont want to spend money twice on injectors

You have a long way to go before then, as far as adding larger injectors to your current setup.. what turbo are you intending to run 20psi boost with? Profile is not filled out nor is in your OP.

What fuel do you think you will be hitting 650whp on? Because unless you are looking at some very large compressor/turbines and cam setups.. it won't be pump gas.

Edit: 20G? You need a wideband like yesterday. That is trouble waiting to happen.

See here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/422900-things-not-do-14b-450s-boost-turned-up.html

There are ways to band-aid this and try to make it work, but that would be bad advice that I don't want included in future search results.

 

[defcom2007]

Thanks, will do

 

[boost97gst]

Buy injectors once. Ill say it again: BUY INJECTORS ONCE. Dont do like sooo so many of us and buy them 2 or 3 times and pay out the ass. Spend the 650 -750 now and get FIC 2150cc hi z injectors. DONE. Never need an upgrade. Dont try bosch 1600s. They are tempting i know, but you will hate them i promise you. Personal experience here.

Build things to handle atleast 33% more power than youre likely to throw at it and you'll be a happy guy down the road. Dont be scared cause its a " 7 bolt". If its built right its just fine

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Buy injectors once. Ill say it again: BUY INJECTORS ONCE. Dont do like sooo so many of us and buy them 2 or 3 times and pay out the ass. Spend the 650 -750 now and get FIC 2150cc hi z injectors. DONE. Never need an upgrade. Dont try bosch 1600s. They are tempting i know, but you will hate them i promise you. Personal experience here.

Build things to handle atleast 33% more power than youre likely to throw at it and you'll be a happy guy down the road. Dont be scared cause its a " 7 bolt". If its built right its just fine

I would argue the same for fuel pumps. Unless you are absolutely, 100% steadfast in staying with a certain setup.. you may well save money in the long run going with a giant single like a Weldon2345 or MagnaFuel MP4303, possibly even a mechanical unit.

Having run dual pumps and the like, or upgrading sequentially and different line sizes, fittings, etc. I shudder to think how much I've wasted in upgrading over the years.

He's right, build your fuel system once.

 

[defcom2007]

Im def 100% steadfast at 550hp +100shot or 650 motor. What do yall recommend for fueling that goal? I already have a 320lph in tank pump

 

[boost97gst]

Ditch the "nitrous" unless its a track only car and you have a 90+lb/min turbo. i dont see the need for it other than the cool factor ... Go e85 or pump with water/meth

The 320 should be ok. I went with the 450 wally right off the bat. You may need more pump if you plan on using e85. I cant say for sure.

DSM Forums - View Profile: keltalon

Check out Kels setup. Hes putting down 652whp! He really doesnt have anything too exotic in there. Stock mani basically. Btw, stock manis have been well over 600whp. just fyi

 

[keston95GS-T]

You definitely have to tune if you planning to run injectors that big. Good luck

 

[Dude McGee]

1 320lph pump+e85 will never make it past 450hp and thats a stretch. What fuel will you be running?

 

[iBoostDSM]

1 320lph pump+e85 will never make it past 450hp and thats a stretch. What fuel will you be running?

I'm making 400whp+ on e85 and a 255 Do I suggest it? Not one bit, just waiting to get a larger pump.

Picking what type of fuel you will be using is a pretty big factor in what injector size you will need. For 600hp & e85 I would just go with something over 2000cc's.

IMO it's not worth saving up for AEM, DSMlink will do everything that you need for 600hp. Use the extra money saved from that to buy a nice fuel setup.

 

[defcom2007]

1 320lph pump+e85 will never make it past 450hp and thats a stretch. What fuel will you be running?

No e85 in south louisiana, i will be running 96octane

I'm making 400whp+ on e85 and a 255 Do I suggest it? Not one bit, just waiting to get a larger pump.

Picking what type of fuel you will be using is a pretty big factor in what injector size you will need. For 600hp & e85 I would just go with something over 2000cc's.

IMO it's not worth saving up for AEM, DSMlink will do everything that you need for 600hp. Use the extra money saved from that to buy a nice fuel setup.

My sponsor can get me the newest aem standalone for a gen2 for a few bills more than dsm link v3....the local dyno tuner prefers aem equip as well.

 

[boost97gst]

Well, if the local guy is really good and hes familiar with aem then it may be worth it... for you. If you plan on spending a bunch more on the actual tuning as well.
With link you can learn and tune 650whp on pump. It can and has been done. Large turbo to get that power on even 96 oct.. Along with a good ETS IC.

 

[defcom2007]

Well, if the local guy is really good and hes familiar with aem then it may be worth it... for you. If you plan on spending a bunch more on the actual tuning as well.
With link you can learn and tune 650whp on pump. It can and has been done. Large turbo to get that power on even 96 oct.. Along with a good ETS IC.

I can dial the tune in mostly, i have used him in the past just to polish the rough edges and post big numbers for show.

 

[Dude McGee]

I'm making 400whp+ on e85 and a 255 Do I suggest it? Not one bit, just waiting to get a larger pump.

Picking what type of fuel you will be using is a pretty big factor in what injector size you will need. For 600hp & e85 I would just go with something over 2000cc's.

IMO it's not worth saving up for AEM, DSMlink will do everything that you need for 600hp. Use the extra money saved from that to buy a nice fuel setup.

Lol no dynojet or boost a pumps allowed!

A little off track here, but the PAU on Mustang dynos gives street hp numbers. Not trying to be a turd, but those are the dynos Im most familiar with and base my projected number with. So 450 hp plus 10% (on the low side) gained on dynojets would put my number at 495hp for a 320.

 

[iBoostDSM]

Lol no dynojet or boost a pumps allowed!

A little off track here, but the PAU on Mustang dynos gives street hp numbers. Not trying to be a turd, but those are the dynos Im most familiar with and base my projected number with. So 450 hp plus 10% (on the low side) gained on dynojets would put my number at 495hp for a 320.

Checkout my profile, dynoed on a brand new Mustang I've always thought dynojets read closer to 15% higher?

Way off track now.

 

[Dude McGee]

Well then, you, good sir, are a worker of magic.

Yeah, Im prerty sure depending on which MD it is its closer to 15%. On the SE 500 its pretty close to 15%