I'm in Iraq and my car is in Iowa stalling when my Dad drives it.

[mbyoung424]

I was home on leave in May and my car drove fine up until the last day. When I went to drive it back into the garage it stalled. After about 10 minutes it started back up and I drove it in before heading to the airport. Today I got an email from my Dad saying he took it out to drive and it continually stalled on him. It would start after about 5 minutes, but continued stalling. Right now the only mod is a fully built 2.3L engine and the TRE Transmission. I've never had any issues like this before with the car. These are the symptoms that he sent me:

-It doesn't shut off instantly, i.e. it starts cutting out and running very roughly. The motion of the car is jerky.
-There was a loud clicking noise. It continued until the engine wasn't running. It clicks about two times a second. It continues even if the clutch is in.
-The ambient temperature was not hot. It was about 8:45 in the morning.
-It usually will start again after sitting for about 5 minutes.
-When it starts, the engine runs very well. It is not running roughly.
-One time, as it was cutting out, I kept the accelerator pedal pushed all the way down. It was continuing to slow down and was running very rough. Then it suddenly started running okay and accelerated very quickly for about 10 seconds and then started stalling again.
-Do you know where the fuel filter is located? It could possibly be causing the problem, but I can't explain the clicking noise.
-The engine was not over-heating.

I told him where the fuel filter is so he'll check that. The car was driven very rarely for the first year that I was gone, but when I came home on leave I ran the tank nearly empty before filling up. I did some searches and came up with these possible issues.

Could be the CAS: I'm trying to get him my Haynes manual and explain how to read the codes to see if this is the issue.

O2 sensor causes clicking: I read this, but I have no idea where the clicking was coming from. I also heard the ECU could cause the clicking sound. I'm asking him if he can decribe where the sound was coming from.

ECU (Check Capacitors for leaking): This is a '92 so the ECU is old enough to be bad. He was an Electrical Engineer so he'll have no issues checking the capacitors.

Throttle Position Sensor: I got this is a few articles, but don't know how it could be causing the issue.

Idle Speed Sensor: I read this was an issue with the RPM causing it to stall. Doesn't sound like the problem to me, but I'm not there so I thought I'd mention it.

Clean MAF: I read this could cause stalling, but it was in regards to stalling when getting on the gas. That doesn't sound like the issue either.

Vacuum leak: Just another possibility.

I have an AEM EMS awaiting install so I don't want to replace an ECU just so he can drive once every other week. Also just bought a Wideband O2 sensor so I don't want to have to replace the stock one for the same reason as stated above. When I get back home I was going to install everything else, but I don't want to get there with these issues and have to work through all of that along with the install and then not know if the car won't run because of a bad install or because of an issue prior to the install. I'm leaning more towards the ECU or CAS, but I figured I'd try getting some opinions first. I'll post more info as my Dad digs into this.

I know it's a stretch to ask for help to convey to another person who isn't familiar with DSMs but I have no other choice and don't really want to have him take it to a Dealer and have them try replacing everything without me being there to raise the BS flag. All your help is appreciated.

Take it easy

 

[Splitpi]

I wish I was still living in CR. I would have tried to help. I moved to Des Moines ;(

 

[absolute_DSM]

This is why I waited till I back from Iraq to build my car

Simple way to test the CAS is to remove it from the intake cam, turn the key ON (dont start) and spin the CAS. If you hear the clicking of the plugs, it works.

If I was closer I would go check it out. Sounds more like a fuel problem.

 

[Talonracn50]

fuel pump maybe?

 

[mbyoung424]

Splitpi...Thanks anyways.

Absolute DSM...I am waiting until I'm back to do anything to the car. I've just been getting the parts ordered so I don't have to wait for when I get home. The engine and transmission had both been done while i was there. Other than that nothing has been touched since I left. I'll let him know about the CAS check. Thanks for the offer if it was closer though.

Talonracn50...It could definately be a fuel issue. I know he doesn't drive it as often as I had requested so there could be bad fuel in the lines or the pump/filter could be clogged. I wouldn't think it would run after it stalled the first time though if there was fuel starvation due to clogging.

Thanks for the replies

 

[absolute_DSM]

I ordered a bunch of stuff too while I was gone. Its like Xmas when you get back!

I would get that old gas out and put in some new gas. I had a 93 Typhoon that I had sitting here while I was overseas and it took a little bit of easy driving when I got back to get the old gas worked out of that. But after new gas was in, she boosted and idled like a champ.

Id pop the fuel filter off, pump most of the gas out by keying the igntion. Then replace the fuel filter and put in some new gas. Drive it easy for a few mile dozen miles then see how she acts.

 

[S_Ranger]

Come home safe bro...

 

[mbyoung424]

UPDATE...My Dad got the car back to his garage and said he has noted the following:

It stalled 7 times, but did much better than the other day.
It went 15 miles and stalled.
Then it went 4.51 miles.
Then 3.57.
Then 2.64.
Then 5.68.
Then 1.10.
Then .36 and it is in the driveway. It stalled and I went in.
The weather was a lot cooler this evening. I tried not to run it fast in case it was a fuel filter problem.

This time it sometimes would begin to stall, but would continue running roughly. Then it would come out of the stall. It did that for a long time on the first leg.

When it finally stalled, the "Check Engine" light would come on and the clicking began at the same time. It isn't due to bad fuel because when it is running, it usually runs fine. Bad fuel would make it run poorly on a consistent basis.

I notice that when I turn the key off, there are two clicks coming from the same place. It seemed to be more toward the instrument panel tonight(When this first happened my Dad thought it was coming from around the shifter). When the key is turned off, there is a click in about three seconds and then there is a second click three seconds later.

I noticed that when you turn the key off, and the engine has been running ok, there is only one click that occurs. It happens about 4 seconds after the key is turned off. Just thought I'd mention everything I noticed so you can think about it as a clue to what is going on.

My Dad now has his hands on my Haynes manual and is planning to check out the diagnostic codes. He may also take the ECU out and give it a once over to check for blown capacitors or bad connection.

If any of these issues rings a bell feel free to chime in.

Thanks again.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Tell him to get those codes pulled, it should give a hint of whats going on. Just to double check them, post em up here and we can verify them.

Im pretty sure there are no relays around the instrument cluster. The fuel pump and starter relays are the ones by the ECU.

 

[turbosax2]

I would check that ECU after you pull the codes. It's easy enough to do.

 

[mbyoung424]

So my Dad finally got a chance to look at the ECU codes. This is what he said.

"The diagnostic trouble code from the ECU is 44.

They refer to the ignition coil or the ignition power transistor unit.

It says to check the harness and connector, the ignition coil, and the ignition power transistor"

I was already thinking about getting rid of the stock coils and going to a COP setup. Now I actually need new coils so I'll probably go ahead with that. Thanks for the help and the suggestions.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Go for that transistor first Have him swap it out for a known good one. If you need, I have one off a 91 TSI Ill get to you cheap. Just PM me or have him contact me.

 

[antiheroX]

Any stored DTC's?

 

[mbyoung424]

Absolute DSM: I'll have him check the transistor and if it's bad I'll buy the one from you. Thanks.

AntiheroX: He didn't mention any stored codes. Just said he was getting code 44.

 

[mbyoung424]

I got home last month to Hawaii and flew to Iowa yesterday. I started running diagnostics on my car and might have found the problem. Although the code I'm getting says the coils or transistor is bad I'm getting good spark both prior to running and then while the car won't run. After that I started checking for fuel issues. First off, when I turn the ignition to on you can hear the EFI relay close, but the fuel pump doesn't come on. I hooked up a positive lead from the battery to the fuel pump test probe behind the battery and the pump came right on. We tried starting the car with the pump running in that way, but it still won't start. Next we took out the EFI relay and checked the harness for power with the ignition switch on. It was getting 12V so we proceeded to do the voltage and continuity checks on the EFI relay itself. Everything checked out just fine. I finally pulled the ECM out and popped the top off. You could instantly see one of the circuit boards had burned up and the smell was there to prove it. It looks like a few transistors had been fried so I'm thinking that is the problem. I have an AEM ECM, but I don't want to install it before I know my car is running well. Has anyone else had the same issue with their ECM? The circuit board was one of the small ones mounted vertically on the main circuit board.

 

[tqmx1]

If it has not been done you change out the CAPs I was about to scrap one of mine for the veary same reason changed them out and it was good as new

 

[absolute_DSM]

If you have a burned up ECU, theres your problem. The 91 TSI I had was the same way and wouldnt give out fuel or spark. Swap in an ECU and see what happens. Id send you one I had, but I sold them all.

And of course, Welcome back fellow soldier! Glad you made it home safe!