Idle Timing @ 22-24 degrees!!!

[HartmanMS]

I was checking my Talon's ignition timing at idle today, and its pretty steady(unlike before), but its @ 22-24 degrees! That seems pretty high to me. Its a 95, so I have the brown plug you can ground to adjust the biss, and I did that yesterday(also grounding the diagnostic plug, of course), but why is my idle timing so high? I need to get an SAFC to tune my fuel curves, because right now I am running 32psi fuel pressure to compensate for the 550cc injectors and 255HP whinebro. Could the poor fuel tuning affect the timing and slightly rough idle? Thanks!

 

[IHeartTurbo]

Just adjust it. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[HartmanMS]

How would I do that, I don't have a Cam Angle Sensor? Where do I adjust it?

 

[xcelr8n]

wat are you using to check timing?
i know when I use my light it is 5 degrees, but at idle my logger always says 22-24 degrees.

 

[HartmanMS]

I was using the datalogger. It is reading a steady 22-24 degrees advance. Why would it read different from actual ignition timing? I guess I should check it with a timing light...?

 

[HartmanMS]

Well I went out and grounded my ignition plug. The timing stabilized when grounded but idle still want very good. Then as soon as I took off the ground timing went to jumping around erratically, and the idle was still bouncing around 150-200 rpm. The O2 sensor voltage was bouncing up and down like normal, but when I unplugged the O2 sensor, the logger read .05 volts, and the car ran no different. Would that be normal? I heard something about the coolant temperature sensor that reads temp to the ECU can go bad/get a bad connection, and cause you to run rich. Should I check that? I am running out of ideas...

 

[xcelr8n]

the only way to check it properly is with a timing light, get one, and stop reading what the logger has to say.

 

[HartmanMS]

I gotta light, I will see if it still works tomorrow. I was wondering though, how in the hell can you see the crank's timing marks? There is no room over there and you can't even see the thing...

 

[90CherryTSI]

and dab a little on the timing mark, viola, it should be easily visable.

 

[HartmanMS]

Alright, I'll give that a shot tomorrow, hopefully that light works.

 

[HartmanMS]

Well I decided to check tthe timing with the light tonight. At idle the timing, based on the light's readings, bounces between 0 and 12 degrees. When I ground the plug, timing stays at 2-2.5 degrees dead on. It shouldn't bounce around at idle, so what would cause that?

 

[DevilSperm]

make sure you time it with the logger unplugged, that will #### up your timing

 

[HartmanMS]

The logger was plugged in, but not on. I unplugged it and redid the timing light test. Still the same results. 2 degrees BTDC with the ignition plug grounded, and bouncing around between 0-12 degreed BTDC with the plug capped. What could be wrong?

 

[xcelr8n]

well, with the plug ungorunded it will bounce around thats normal....
youre timing with the plug grounded should be 5 degrees, not 2, so youre timing is pretty retarded... you will need to advance it some 3 degrees...
since you have no cas, Im not sure how you advance it, I'm sure someone will chime in with that info though

 

[HartmanMS]

Well, I was reading around on here, as I do very often, and it seems that I DO in fact have a CAS, because I have a 95. It is behind the Intake cam gear. Does anyone konw if it is simply an unbolt and turn adjustment, or is it more complicated? Do you have to have the plug grounded to do this? Any help would be great!

 

[Reese92tsi]

Base timing is non adjustable on 2G's because you have a fixed CAS

 

[HartmanMS]

What can I do about it then? What could have made it retard base timing to 2 degrees BTDC, and how do I get it back to 5 degrees? Am I going to have to take that baby to Satan to get it fixed? Could something else be causing the timing to be low? Like a bad sensor or solenoid somewhere(maybe TPS, or ISC, etc.)?

 

[HartmanMS]

Well, out of sure desperation, I removed my ISC tonight and cleaned it with a soft tooth brush and carb cleaner. I don't really think this helped. I checked the TPS range on the logger, 0-99. I broke the damn timing light, that figures. I was thinking though, since the ignition timing is based on the fixed CAS on the Intake cam, maybe the intake timing is one notch off, but when I timed it after my harmonic balancer separation, I know I got that thing DEAD ON. So I have run out of ideas. In this earlier thread of mine, I posted pictures of my current timing setup.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154779

 

[HartmanMS]

What could cause knock at idle? Maybe that could be my problem? I am going on nothing here. But since I have a 2G, the logger can't read the knock sensor, so I can't read knock count by that.

 

[gsxitement]

what about a 2g with a 6 bolt swap and 272's? at idle which is like 1k, i have like ten or a little less on the timing cover. or do i have to try and get the idle down to 750?