i got a talon n/t

[turboConcepts]

well i may be crazy but i got money to kill, so im going to go all motor with this b*tch and see wut i can get out of her... any suggestions on mods let me know!!!!

 

[mavisky]

uh......how bout a turbo for it :laugh:

 

[TSIMonsteR]

i guess you don't want to turbo it.... so just basics like... headers, exhaust, CAI, sheet metal intake, throttle body, maybe lean out the fuel, raise compression a slight bit.... idk if there are any big hp numbers you can put up there, but who knows!

Good Luck w/ w/e you decide

 

[miamieclipse]

well if u have money to kill

Header $100-300 depending on waht u get (same goes for the rest)
CAI $50-200
Cat back $150-250
Hi Flow Cat $50
udp $140
Cam gears $210
Cams $400
Lifters n rockers $200
Wet kit $450

and more but i really gotta go study for a final , later

 

[atblacktalon92]

Money to kill eh?

New forged pistons
New ported and polished Heads and manifolds
New HKS cams
New Trany from IPT ( can slash off 0.5-1sec 1/4 mile time)
New APEXI AFC

 

[turboConcepts]

hey thx guys ill do most of that...... my uncle says i sould go like titanium on pretty much the hole engine, or somthing to that extent i wasent listing i was just noding my head yes
and saying sounds good.

Wut do u guys think about NOS????

 

[mavisky]

titanium?? hahah

go forged internals, raise the compression while you're at it. then headers, test pipe, and catback.

nitrous isn't hardly "naturally aspirated" it's a power adder just like a supercharger or turbocharger

 

[GSGoinFast]

titanium?? hahah

go forged internals, raise the compression while you're at it. then headers, test pipe, and catback.

nitrous isn't hardly "naturally aspirated" it's a power adder just like a supercharger or turbocharger

i dont see why they consider nitrous forced induction. yes, its not exactly naturally aspired, since the air its taking in isnt natural air, but the nitrous isnt being forced in. its just sprayed in the intake, and the engine takes it in itself. its naturally aspiring unatural air....

sorry i lost myself

CAI, Exaust, headers(if you wish), UDP, P&P head, intake mani, bored out TB, cam gears, cams, forged internals with Uped compression, new valves, springs, lifters lashers that good stuff. you could just buy a bottom and top end kit from howell, that would give you a very good start.

 

[leakyfaucet]

i dont see why they consider nitrous forced induction. yes, its not exactly naturally aspired, since the air its taking in isnt natural air, but the nitrous isnt being forced in.

Uhh... yeah it is.

my uncle says i sould go like titanium on pretty much the hole engine

That would be the extreme overkill, and unless you got thousands and thousands of dollars to waste, don't do it. (good thing you weren't really listening. )

 

[67goatpimp]

i don't think putting that much money into an N/A motor would be a good way to spend your resources....lots of money with not much to show for it. i would definately say throw a turbo, spray, plus everything else you're talking about you'ld be having some fun.

 

[Daedalus]

i don't think putting that much money into an N/A motor would be a good way to spend your resources....lots of money with not much to show for it. i would definately say throw a turbo, spray, plus everything else you're talking about you'ld be having some fun.

You will have a lot to show for it. I am the only all motor 4G63 that is built in the entire state and two surronding states. Its relativly fast (not turbo fast, but quick), its a hell of a lot more reliable than a turbo would ever be, and you can be different. Everyone has gone turbo over and over again. All motor is unchartered territory. I'm proud of being all motor for the simple fact that my car is completly different than any other eclipse, talon, or laser in the state of nebraska, kansas, south dakota, and colorado (there are two i think in iowa).

And no matter what the turbo guys tell you... Your testicles wont fall off, you can still enjoy building up your car just as much as them and have just as much reward from doing so.

[/Rant mode off]

 

[mavisky]

if your main goal is to be different no matter what anyone else says then go nt by all means. if you're looking to be fast for not alot of money, go turbo. my nt never got out of the 16's so i went turbo because i could care less what it took, i just wanted to be faster. if the quickest setup was a cow's ass stuck to my hood that's the direction i was going.

 

[BacknBlack92ESi]

if your main goal is to be different no matter what anyone else says then go nt by all means. if you're looking to be fast for not alot of money, go turbo. my nt never got out of the 16's so i went turbo because i could care less what it took, i just wanted to be faster. if the quickest setup was a cow's ass stuck to my hood that's the direction i was going.

That is how I was. The fastest I got out of my N/T was a 15.7. That was still slow. Then I went turbo. Best thing ever. I used a Big16G turbo...After about a monthe of boosting. It spun a bearing. Then I got a 14b and have had an oil seal problem ever since. But I ran 10-12lbs daily on the stock n/t pistons. Had the turbo cams also. Mods I had are in my mod list. I raced a modded 87-93 GT that ran a 13.9 in the 1/4. I only lost by about a bumper. Boost away if you want to be fast.

 

[Thunderskull]

I've been going back and forth myself on whether to turbo the car or go all motor. I think I'm going all motor also. I just wondered what results folks have had with upping the compression of their n/a 4g63 or if anybody has stroked their n/t out to 2.3 litres. I'm considering going with 12.5:1 compression on a stroked n/a 4g63. I'd only need parts since I can do all the work myself. I'd likely go with an HKS 264 intake cam in addition to header/exhaust. I figured I'd drop in some 30lb injectors and use an AFC II to control them. With that, a stock knock sensor (which can plug into the afc II), and a MSD DIS-2 box I should be all set. I figure I'm looking at about 2k in parts. That includes a trip to the pick a part.

 

[Daedalus]

I dont know of anyone w/a stroked 2.3l n/a and upped compression. A couple of people have shaved their heads, but nothing else. I was going to buy a stroker kit but I ran out of funds.

I'd likely go with an HKS 264 intake cam in addition to header/exhaust. I figured I'd drop in some 30lb injectors and use an AFC II to control them.

Good setup, leave the exhuast cam alone. You might want to consider the ECU+ system. It is more expensive than the AFC2, but you get more features and adjustabilty (timing, etc.) My buddy who owns Transonic racing here in omaha steered me away from an AFC2 because according to him it messes with the timing and makes tuning pointless and hit and miss. I dont know the truth to that, but I'm going with the ECU+ for my tuning.

Question. 30lb injectors equal what cc? 390, 450???

 

[Thunderskull]

Yeah, I was planning on leaving the exhaust cam alone. I figure a ceramic coated pacesetter header (or whatever punishment racing comes up with ) and a custom built 2 1/4 inch exhaust. I thought about the ECU+, but with the AFC II I'd be able to see knock since I would be running high compression, and the highest octane we get in Cali is 91. Unfortunately, you can't just hook up a knock sensor to a volt meter, and I'd rathar not swap in a turbo ECU and buy a knockbox. I love what I've seen of the ECU+, and if it read knock I'd be all over it. I'd ditch the DIS-2 (for timing control) and just go with the ECU+ instead of the AFC II. Oh, 30 lb injectors equal something like 310ccs. You can buy high impedence injectors for our cars with the 30lb capacity. That way I don't need to fool with a resistor pack. It'll just be plug and play. Though I doubt I'll max those out with my setup. In addition, I will likely put in a fuel pump from a turbo 4g63. I'm currently using a stock turbo fpr with my B&M Commandflo AFPR which lets me lower the fuel pressure below stock for a 4g63 n/t.

 

[Daedalus]

yea... sounds like you have a great plan. I am planning on waiting for punishment's headers as well... It makes sense what your saying with the knock detection. I didnt even think about it with the compression you were running, but you are probably right.

In terms of fuel, I was upgrading to a turbo pump, B&M AFPR, new fuel rail and Turbo A/T injectors (390cc). I know it seems like massive injectors, but I should have no problems controling them with ECU+. They should be plug and play as well (as far as I know).

Keep up updated on your progress!!!

 

[Thunderskull]

No problem. I'll probably do the rebuild last. I wouldn't worry about a new fuel rail. If the stock rail can flow enough for more than 200 hp (actually, it can flow enough to accomodate a WHOLE lot more), then I wouldn't be too concerned about getting an aftermarket one since we may not even reach that point. 390ccs should be more than adequate for your plans. Well, now that I've got the plan, I just got to get it put together so I'm not another one of those guys that talks about it and never does it, .

 

[turboConcepts]

cool guys thx for the imput...
i got the motor out last night and started digging into it and ill keep you all updated!!!!

 

[Daedalus]

Great to hear! Keep us updated. Do you have a definant plan now?

Parts list of mods your planning? Oh yea... We all love pictures of progress!

 

[Mike Marnik]

Wow other people in the omaha metro area going all motor on thier dsms im surprised all my friends told me i was crazy. im only 16 so i aint got alot of fund but im slowly starting out. what some good performance shops in the area i can do most of the work my self tho me and my dad are real good with cars just rebuilt my engine sorry if i went off subject.

 

[mavisky]

now you do realize that you need a turbo ecu to see knock with the s-afc II since the n/t's never had a provision for a knock sensor aside from a hole in the block that was left empty. also the s-afc II uses its own knock sum which is different than the knock sum you usually hear discussed on this board from people with dataloggers.

 

[Thunderskull]

The knock sum may be different which was one of my main concerns. However, the AFC-II calibrates itself to determine what normal engine knock is. The AFC-II has it's own processor so that it is able to hear the engine knock. My intention is to install it before I do my work. Since it's able to hold it's memory with the power off, I shouldn't have any trouble using that baseline after my modifications. Also, the AFC-II doesn't require a turbo ECU to see knock. I've examined the wiring diagrams, tuning guides, and installation instructions. It picks up the signal from the knock sensor. In order to read knock from the ECU, it would have to connect to the diagnostic port. The old knockboxes (not the new one that actually plugs into the diagnostic port) just told you when the knock level got high enough to trigger the boost control solenoid. This was hooked into the boost control solenoid wire and does receive a signal from the ECU, however, it doesn't give any indication of the counts of knock.

 

[mavisky]

well yea i guess you could just tap straight into the knock sensor for its info now that you mention it. but with the turbo cars if you see under 7 counts of knock its not a big deal since the ecu isn't pulling timing yet, with this even after it sets itself correctly that number may be 20-22 on its own "scale of knock". what you really need is a datalogger to see the amount of timing you're getting at the same time. but then again the nt ecu won't pull timing because it has no idea itself that its seeing any knock at all. if knock is a concern of yours you should look into the the J&S knockguard (i think that's it's name) it will pull timing for you when it sees knock and it has the capability to sense individual cylinders instead of just the entire block by viewing one cylinder at a time.