Hydrogen Kits - Real or Scam?

[No_Skillz]

Gas 4 Free

A coworker introduced me to this site. At first I was like "PFFFFFFT No way." Upon further research, something like this could be possible. From my own digging, it seems like these kits use electrolysis to produce hydrogen and oxygen from water.

I've been digging around for reviews for sites like these but they're all positive, which leads me to believe they are all rigged.

Anyone have any experience with this kind of stuff?

 

[the_mork]

Complete scam.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/292786-hydrogen-supplement-3.html

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yes, it's a complete scam. All of the testimonials I've seen are fraught with pseudoscience and spurious claims. I've argued about this topic across several forums now...

Team 2GNT Forum - Viewing topic #108913 - Hydrogen generators?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...0850-2g-n-t-hybrid-project-hybrid-theory.html

 

[No_Skillz]

Thing is, most aguments against this idea are along the lines of "you can't get more than what you put in." However, in this instance the point is not energy conversion, but materials extraction.

Has anyone actually TRIED this?

 

[xsboost]

Complete scam. It is possible to get hydrogen from water using electrolysis but as No_Skills stated "you can't get more than what you put in". The process would be an exothermic reaction and because of the laws of thermodynamics it would require more energy to produce the reaction than the reaction would yield. I.E. it would require more electricity from your car than the energy from the hydrogen would give back. Not to mention the explosive potential using hydrogen gas created from this method. NASA uses hydrogen fuel cells which basically use "solid" hydrogen and there have been cars made with hydrogen fuel cells but the technology isn't readily available for public use. So basically: yes you can get hydrogen from water but no you can't just hook an electrolysis kit up to your car and use water for fuel.

 

[No_Skillz]

WELL, I think my coworker and I are going to try it (to his old Hyundai Sonata, of course... nothing like that will ever touch my baby 'til it's proven). We are in the initial stages of planning.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Thing is, most aguments against this idea are along the lines of "you can't get more than what you put in." However, in this instance the point is not energy conversion, but materials extraction.

I don't think "materials extraction" is the right word, but I believe what you meant to say is still energy conversion. Burning gasoline is energy conversion: chemical potential energy to mechanical kinetic energy.

Has anyone actually TRIED this?

Sure, lots of people. Most of them are too mesmerized by the idea of beating the laws of physics to scientifically design and test such a system, though. I postulate that if any gains are realized at all, they're due to a change in driving habits above anything else. After all, if you have bucket of water and hoses filled with hydrogen in your car, wouldn't you drive more carefully?

 

[TunaTalon]

Scam.

The first law of thermodynamics has not been repealed.

Consider this:
If you could find a way to separate the Oxygen and Hydrogen from water using less energy then you get from recombining them back into water then the worlds energy problems are over.

 

[No_Skillz]

I don't think "materials extraction" is the right word, but I believe what you meant to say is still energy conversion. Burning gasoline is energy conversion: chemical potential energy to mechanical kinetic energy.

Sure, lots of people. Most of them are too mesmerized by the idea of beating the laws of physics to scientifically design and test such a system, though. I postulate that if any gains are realized at all, they're due to a change in driving habits above anything else. After all, if you have bucket of water and hoses filled with hydrogen in your car, wouldn't you drive more carefully?

We could probably sit here and debate for weeks (which I see you already have ). But neither of us are nuclear physicists and I doubt we are accounting for all the forces at work in a system like this. Even being well versed in chemistry and physics, I still have a hard time deciding if it will work or not.

The only thing left to do is try. I realize driving habits will change, but anything less than the advertised 30% gain will be judged by me to be a failure and a scam.

 

[TSIAWDTalon]

To the OP SAVE YOUR MONEY.

I have tried several of these kits over the last few months to satisfy my own curiosity. The plain and simple fact is THEY DONT WORK. Period. The first kit I tried on my 00 Expedition actually gave me about 4 more miles per gallon, but it was only because of my lighter right foot. I took the kit off and drove exactly the same and actually netted 1 more mile per gallon with the kit off than on. There is potential there, but you simply cannot get enough "browns gas" from a 12 volt system without frying alternators and batteries. When they talk about "fractional addition" they are simply adding fractions of your money to theirs.

You want to save gas, drive easier, change your oil frequently, keep your tires properly inflated, and keep your vehicle regularly maintained. Or buy a bike.

 

[the_mork]

Just send me the money instead and I'll send you a flux capacitor, you can use it to buy gas for a nickel per gallon. By the way, when you get it it will look like a moldy sandwich. The idea behind this disguise is that we have to hide the technology from the Russians. Install is simple just pull your dash vents out and stick it in the heat ducting.

 

[TunaTalon]

The only thing left to do is try.

Ok go ahead and experiment with technology that has been understood since the 1800s.

The best that can happen is that you waste some time and money to learn that it’s just a scam.

The worst that can happen is that you make it work and the Arab oil sheiks hunt you down and … But don’t worry about that.

 

[MrBoxx]

But neither of us are nuclear physicists and I doubt we are accounting for all the forces at work in a system like this.

It really doesn't take much more a high school physics education to know that this won't work. It defies the laws of physics.

Here's an example of what they're proposing:

You use energy from your alternator to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. (2:1 ratio) Then you inject the hydrogen into your car to "help burn the gas more efficiently." Okay, now we all know about air/fuel mixtures, and how the car's ECU likes them to be just so precise at a given time. It thinks that if it injects X number of gas molecules for Y number of oxygen molecules, everything will be completely burned (in a perfect world). But... here you are, injecting hydrogen gas into the combustion chamber; hydrogen gas which requires an oxygen molecule to burn. That means one less oxygen molecule to burn a gas molecule, totally fuxoring your ECU's attempt to be fuel efficient. In effect, you're burning the gas LESS efficiently.

This is my understanding of how this system is supposed to work. And any system that claims it can use electrolysis of water to produce enough hydrogen to run a car solely on that, without the use of gasoline, is pure BS.

 

[pj91gsx]

Has anyone actually TRIED this?

I have. I made my own hydrogen booster. It works. Its not too much of a gain unless you get serious with it. I havent had much time to work with it, because im working on 3 cars and gas has come down a lot. The booster uses 15 amps, and for every 10 amps of power, your mpgs goes down 0.4 miles. so I have to do better than 0.8 to see an increase. I have a friend that uses his booster on a ford ranger and gets 27 mpgs starting from 17. The booster increase hp as well. I wish I had time to mess with it some more but I just have other things to do right now. I have my booster assembled and everything, but it leaks hydrogen. The first time I had it on, the wires sparked and exploded, because the pvc melted. Now i am using a glass jar. Everyone that says it doesn't work has not tried it so why listen to them. If you do a simple booster you can gain 5 mpgs or more depending on how much gas your motor naturally wastes. Ive heard of the people who tune and get into this stuff. one guy with a mustang with 400 hp and 110 mpgs. a motor home with a 454 getting 54 mpgs. If you want to know how to make one cheap and what is involved I can help you out. If you start off with the wrong materials you will end up like me wasting a lot of money.

 

[TSIAWDTalon]

I have. I made my own hydrogen booster. It works. Its not too much of a gain unless you get serious with it. I havent had much time to work with it, because im working on 3 cars and gas has come down a lot. The booster uses 15 amps, and for every 10 amps of power, your mpgs goes down 0.4 miles. so I have to do better than 0.8 to see an increase. I have a friend that uses his booster on a ford ranger and gets 27 mpgs starting from 17. The booster increase hp as well. I wish I had time to mess with it some more but I just have other things to do right now. I have my booster assembled and everything, but it leaks hydrogen. The first time I had it on, the wires sparked and exploded, because the pvc melted. Now i am using a glass jar. Everyone that says it doesn't work has not tried it so why listen to them. If you do a simple booster you can gain 5 mpgs or more depending on how much gas your motor naturally wastes. Ive heard of the people who tune and get into this stuff. one guy with a mustang with 400 hp and 110 mpgs. a motor home with a 454 getting 54 mpgs. If you want to know how to make one cheap and what is involved I can help you out. If you start off with the wrong materials you will end up like me wasting a lot of money.

I call BS.

 

[TunaTalon]

The world, or this site, doesn’t need another thread about perpetual motion devices.

This topic was pretty well beaten to death in http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/292786-hydrogen-supplement.html

 

[pj91gsx]

I don't think so, I have another friend that took a class on it, he said that if it does not work on his car he will call bs louder than anyone. He gain 5 mpgs. so bs there. there are forums on this on how to help other people make there boosters. there are no benefits for the people that own the forums, just benefit for the people to learn. I am still learning about it, and I know it makes the car run richer, because of the increase in oxygen content, there are devices to compensate for it but im not sure which way to go. I read those forums over the summer, and casperfast put a booster on a motor home. I hope no one tries to argue about the stupid science and thermodynamics because I have heard it all, and I don't care, because it works. And, to conclude, there are new hybrids using magnets for the hybrid the key that it is magnets means that it is perpetual motion that they are using. Why would there be hybrids with perpetual motion if it doesnt work?

 

[MrBoxx]

Now that someone has uttered the two special words that will ultimately lead to a disaster, we're shutting this one down.

When someone builds a perpetual motion machine and has it PROVEN to work, and those results are REPEATABLE and published, then you can talk all you want about them. Until then, BS.

Same goes for hydrogen "boosters". Show me the mathematical equations that says the process ends in NET POSITIVE energy, and then we can talk.