General How much timing is to much to soon wide open!

[v8killer]

Just wondering how much timing is to much for a wide open timing curve. what should a taylored timing curve look like. the stock 2g curve is a dog....... Thanks !

 

[JDR7919]

You want to run as much timing as you can without knocking. Do you have a way to log knock?

 

[v8killer]

no just timing and its so slow that its useless !

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Hi,

On N/A motors there is a certain amount of timing advance you want to run so that max cylinder pressures are at 12*-14* ATDC I believe.

But, on turbo motors before we advance the timing too much we will knock heavily, that is why, as stated before, in general on a turbo motor you want to run as much timing advance as you can at WOT.

Bill

 

[toofast82]

how much boost are you running? what are your a/f's?

 

[v8killer]

well i am running about 18-19 deg afr is about 10.8 and when i go wideopen i will get this hesitation/miss or maybe detination can't tell as soon as i hit full boost then it will clear out and pull good !

 

[toofast82]

well sounds about right as far as a/f and timing! the hesitation may be another issue

 

[v8killer]

sorry i was wrong max timing is 16 deg afr is 10.80 18-19 psi ! but i backed it off to 16 psi and it doesn't miss or hesitate ! plugs are gaped on 28.

 

[toofast82]

Possibly try to gap the plugs to .026" for 18psi+ and see if this gets rid of miss. Your a/f seems right or maybe a hair rich, but you could probably add a degree or two or pound of boost. What are you tuning with?

 

[turboglenn]

How soon as far as RPM and how much boost are you at whne you say you're binging the timning on early or fast? 16* by redline is one thing, 16 immediately at 12-15psi and only 4k RPM is another. I need a better understanding of what load cell you'd be refering to if i were mapping an ECU.

For instance, my car has 29* of timing at 0 vac/boost at most RPM's above 2500, then as boost sets in it curves down to either 14 or 20* (depending on the fuel and map i'm running i run E85 and pump fuel and can change maps on the fly) then as RPM increases the ignition increases to keep up.

But if you're talking about what i think you are (say 15psi at 4k RPM WOT and that load cell's timing) I would say you're doing pretty good to be geting 16 out of your ECU....

I see you're tuning via chip/emulator can you post a pic of your ignition map? IF you want i can send you my maps (e85 and pump) and all you'd have to do is download the haltech software and i could tell you how to get it to show you a spread sheet style numbers version of the map instead of the 3d fast and furious looking maps (which i hate...give me DOS based tuning back )

 

[v8killer]

But if you're talking about what i think you are (say 15psi at 4k RPM WOT and that load cell's timing) I would say you're doing pretty good to be geting 16 out of your ECU....

well in tunerpro i have max timing 6000-6500 @15deg and 7000-7500@16deg but i haven't logged it because my 95 eprom hates it and its so slow it sucks ! so i can't tell if it's pulling timing..... i'm at work so i will get a pic of my timing table later !

 

[toofast82]

Keep in mind that 2g has an extra .7:1 compression, hence it has less aggressive timing. You need to get your logger functioning properly to really know where you are at. Since you are using Tunerpro, than you can manually enter your desired timing and a/f. I would set your a/f for 10.8-11.0:1 and start with stock timing that i believe goes to 18*. Make some logs and see that you have no knock and your a/f is good. Then add either a pound of boost or degree of timing and relog and make adjustments. Believe it or not, the 2g timing map is great for spooling up the turbo. Im not saying more power necessarily, but better spoolup, yes. I use that for low end and then ramp up to about 20*

 

[v8killer]

the 2g timing map is great for spooling up the turbo

i tried it with my 14b and it spooled faster with more timing. it may be better with a bigger turbo which i am going to to my fp green by next month but i wanted to max this 14b out and have fun with it...... on my logger i only get 2.5 logs a sec but i think the program i'm using is slow also.....

 

[v8killer]

well when it hesitates it does it as soon as it gets into boost around 18-19 then falls to 15-16 so max timing has nothing to do with it, now i may have to much timing when it comes in, i may take a coulpe deg out at 3000-4000 and see if it does it. but i think that it just doesn't like 18-19 psi even with my big front mount.

Keep in mind that 2g has an extra .7:1 compression, hence it has less aggressive timing.

i do think that has something to do with it so maybe 16-17 is all that i can run till i get my weth kit on...

 

[toofast82]

well when it hesitates it does it as soon as it gets into boost around 18-19 then falls to 15-16 so max timing has nothing to do with it, now i may have to much timing when it comes in, i may take a coulpe deg out at 3000-4000 and see if it does it. but i think that it just doesn't like 18-19 psi even with my big front mount.

You may want to either take some timing out as you said on the low end or work on getting more stable boost control

 

[v8killer]

well i think i got the controller lined out i think it's just the 14b not keeping up. i can run the boost line strait to the wastegate and it will hold 10 psi all the way to redline !

 

[toofast82]

I notice on mine if i set it 15psi, it creeps to 17-18. If i try to set it at 20psi. it will spike to 22 at boost start and drop off to 17psi by redline. its frustrating. Im putting a different turbo on soon, but will be throwing my external gate on this week for testing. Ill let you know how it works out then.

 

[v8killer]

guys i can't get the picture of my timing map but my wideopen map goes like this.

rpm: 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500
timing: 6.00 8.00 10.00 11.00 12.00 13.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00 17.00 17.00

 

[turboglenn]

well in tunerpro i have max timing 6000-6500 @15deg and 7000-7500@16deg but i haven't logged it because my 95 eprom hates it and its so slow it sucks ! so i can't tell if it's pulling timing..... i'm at work so i will get a pic of my timing table later !

cool, shoot me a PM when you get it scanned/uploaded, just in case i don't get back on here for any other reason tonight. I'll have you send it to my email and i'll check it out and get back to you on it with any thoughts i might have and hopefully i can be of some help.

 

[v8killer]

hey guys how do i post a log !

 

[v8killer]

well heres my log ! looks like its pulling timing....... max timing should be 16 degs from 6000-6500 17 degs 7000-7500


Car1 Polling Setup 3/23/2009 10:25:44 PM

Second(s) Engine RPM(rpm) Ignition Advance(Deg)(%)
4 864 12.5
5 868 13.5
6 880 14.5
6 1244 8.5
7 2556 24
8 1612 30
9 1588 25.5
10 1648 16
10 2292 24
11 2964 27.5
12 2976 30
13 2180 30.5
13 2628 20.5
14 3160 16
15 3728 15.5
16 4136 20.5
17 2892 23
17 3076 16
18 3404 13
19 3800 13.5
20 4180 14.5
20 4580 15.5
21 4992 14.5
22 5428 15.5
23 5852 13.5
23 6232 14
24 6584 14.5
25 6868 14.5