how much timing is good for you

[larryriverside]

just wondering what kind timing people shoot for. i personally try to tune for 16 to 20 of advance. 18 is a good number i guess. i have a 2g mas fmic 2.5" piping, 60 trim garret, and 650's with fuel pressure set to 43. i run 16 to 17 psi boost at 6500 rpms. any more boost and the knock goes in the teens. thats on pump 93 when i run power 110 its hard to keep the timing down. i'm just running an safc. can't wait for dsm link for 1g ecu's. enough rambling huh. what timing do you like to run?

 

[Violater101]

Yeah, I would agree with you. I would like to have about 18 to 20 degrees of timing advance, but it seems that if I run 18 to 20psi, the knock starts coming up (around 3 degrees of knock retard ..which basically results in 0 advance and stock timing 16 degrees. I've been having alot better luck lately though, so we'll see how it does now that the weather is getting warmer out.

 

[kpt4321]

You want... the most you can have without sacraficing anything else.

I run 22 on pump gas, and around 25 on race gas.

 

[symple]

ok, so I'm a super newbie to this whole tuning thing.

Anyway, at WOT in 3rd, my timing stays between 18 and 21 degrees, with 0 knock. My 02 voltage is between .85 and .91. These values are up to 6100-6200 RPM. At 6400-6500 rpm, timing drops to single digits and I get 1-2 counts of knock. (From still running the 450's I'm assuming.)

This is all done between 16 and 17 psi on pump gas.


At cruising RPM in 5th gear (say...3500 RPM), I pull anywhere from 28-39 degrees of timing. Is this normal?


Sorry for the n00b post!


--Symple

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

to keep your timing under control... reduce your fuel pressure some and add fuel with the SAFC.. that will help a little bit.. other than that you can reduce the knock as well by reducing your base timing a few degrees.

 

[bodymandave]

why do i only get 15 degrees at wot? i have no knock, check my sig for mods...i get 36 or so cruising down the street...i wonder if because im 15+ on afc is why..maybe i should bump the pressure.
Dave

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by symple
Anyway, at WOT in 3rd, my timing stays between 18 and 21 degrees, with 0 knock. My 02 voltage is between .85 and .91. These values are up to 6100-6200 RPM. At 6400-6500 rpm, timing drops to single digits and I get 1-2 counts of knock. (From still running the 450's I'm assuming.)

The drop in timing is not caused by the knock, because 1-2 knock sum will decrease the timing less than one degree.

The drop in timing is just caused by crappy stock timing maps, which are even crappier on the 90's.

It should not, however, drop to single digits. Are you sure you are reading the datalog correctly?

If you have boost leaks, you will get less timing advance and more fuel than you should.

At cruising RPM in 5th gear (say...3500 RPM), I pull anywhere from 28-39 degrees of timing. Is this normal?

The majority of the time I am usually in the low 30's, but yes, that sounds a bit right.

The load on the motor is much less at cruise, so the timing needs to be advanced more.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by bodymandave
why do i only get 15 degrees at wot? i have no knock, check my sig for mods...i get 36 or so cruising down the street...i wonder if because im 15+ on afc is why..maybe i should bump the pressure.

You answered your own question.

Timing decreases as load (airflow per rev) increases. Since you are very positive on the SAFC, you are telling the ECU that you are flowing more air and therefore lowering your timing.

15 is still pretty low though...

 

[symple]

I'm sure I am reading it correctly. 6400+ RPM had anywhere from 7-9 degrees of timing. I'll go make another run as soon as the snow clears.


At idle (700-900 rpm) I've also noticed my timing between 7 and 10 degrees. I have an idle issue that I've been trying to fix for a while now.

I fixed one boost leak last week and that helped quite a bit. It's still nowhere near perfect.


--Symple

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by symple
I'm sure I am reading it correctly. 6400+ RPM had anywhere from 7-9 degrees of timing. I'll go make another run as soon as the snow clears.

Ok, something is wrong then. You are either knocking a lot, or you are in some kind of limp mode. There's no way for the timing to get that low otherwise.

At idle (700-900 rpm) I've also noticed my timing between 7 and 10 degrees. I have an idle issue that I've been trying to fix for a while now.

That is normal. Base timing at idle speed is 8 degrees, and the ECU changes it to make small changes in idle speed.

I fixed one boost leak last week and that helped quite a bit. It's still nowhere near perfect.

Fix more!

 

[yo2001]

90 ECU will pull alot of timing in higher rpm. Mine goes down to 17 deg without any knock. I think that's due to high injector D/C.

 

[kpt4321]

It is not directly related to the injector duty cycle.

Like I said already:

The drop in timing is not caused by the knock, because 1-2 knock sum will decrease the timing less than one degree.

The drop in timing is just caused by crappy stock timing maps, which are even crappier on the 90's.

 

[2GeNTSi]

OK I did a short run today and I logged it. I just got my mbc hooked up correctly finally, I read 14psi all the way to 6k (I noticed the needle is above the square on the gauge so I'm guessing it's really 13psi). I still need to adjust it for my low setting which I want at 11psi.

Anyways at 6k I was only reading 86% throttle which I thought was a little low. Timing was at 15 degrees, O2 1 was at 1v and O2 2 was at .92v. If this matters I was in 2nd.

Does any of these readings seem fine? I took out my mods from my list but right now I have: ngk wires, bpr7s @ .30, 2.5 to 3" downpipe, 3" catback, 2 3/4" intake, 1g bov, upper "L" ic pipe, upper "S" ic pipe. I have my Walbro 190lph, just waiting to install it.

 

[Mirageman]

Many have said that '90 ECU's have bad timing maps, but I don't think mine is so bad. I made 2 runs at WOT in 3rd and 4th maxing the MAS at 1580Hz and injectors at 80% duty cycle. This was showing 14-18 knock and 17* timing. Then using water/alky inj. I got 0 knock and 21-24* timing. 100oct. is also in the 20-24 range. How much more can you expect from a '91+ ECU?

 

[ITSME4G63]

Last time I logged my car with friends logger I was hitting 25 at WOT

 

[12's]

Originally posted by 2GeNTSi
Anyways at 6k I was only reading 86% throttle which I thought was a little low.

That is low. You should be hitting 100% throttle during you runs. Check to make sure you dont hae a huge floor mat or something preventing you from hitting WOT.

 

[doug]

Or a loose throttle cable..