HORRIBLE grinding/knocking/crashing sound when cranking

[BLOHS7844]

I just had some machining done to my head (exhaust stud) and replaced my head gasket, did the timing, and all of that. It was my first time doing any of that though.
I went to start it up and it was making some of the worst noises imaginable. Grinding like gears grinding. It was in neutral so not the trans. But could it be the starter? I didn't even touch that.

It made a terrible crashing noise after a couple seconds and my first thought was a bent valve. The timing belt is still tight. When I did the timing I made sure the dowel pins were facing up, cams aligned, and the crank in the right spot. (no balance shafts) The noise was kinda like something breaking. Somewhat in a way like glass breaking? The problem got worse each time I tryed cranking it. I'm really afraid to try again

I took the spark plugs out and valve cover off for a quick visual inspection and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. cylinder 2 had some smoke coming out initally when I took the spark plugs out. I noticed it like 2 minutes later too. It smelled more like gas than the other cylinders. All the spark plugs smelled like gas like I would expect.

I'm 90% sure I got the spark plug wires in all the right places. What do you think?

 

[rlacasse1]

Vfaq for reference. Timing Belt VFAQ

Oh ok. And yes I would, just to double check everything.

 

[Calan]

Check out this thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/372695-ignition-timing.html

There is a lot of info in there about the timing cover in relation to the crank plate marks, and the position of the harmonic balancer in relation to those.

 

[BLOHS7844]

Does it matter which was the cam angle sensor was put in? I don't remember if there was only one way to put it in.

And I'm not off with my ignition timing by a few degrees. Something is seriously wrong and I don't think its the ignition. It does account for the grinding.

And I read everything there is on vfaqs thoroughly

 

[Calan]

Does it matter which was the cam angle sensor was put in? I don't remember if there was only one way to put it in.

Yes, but it won't cause clanking and breaking glass noises if it's 180* out. Read the thread I just gave you a link to!

And I'm not off with my ignition timing by a few degrees. Something is seriously wrong and I don't think its the ignition. It does account for the grinding.

We aren't talking about ignition timing; we're talking about mechanical (valve) timing.

 

[BLOHS7844]

I read that entire thread. I don't think my valve timing is off. I understand how the timing works and the marks all line up where they should. No balance shafts so that simplifies everything by like 10x.

 

[Calan]

If you are 100% sure the marks all line up and there is no visible damage under the VC, then I would do a leak-down test and pull the flywheel inspection plate. Based on the type and amount of noise you described, I'm betting you either have bent valves or something chewed up with the flywheel/starter.

Have you checked and rechecked everything you touched to make sure nothing was left loose and there isn't a socket or something rattling around in the engine or bell housing?

 

[BLOHS7844]

I'm sure I forgot something. I have coolant leaking onto the trans but I'm sure thats from a loose hose. I really hope its my flywheel cause I wanna get a lightweight one anyways. I jacked up the engine up and down many times when doing this without the motor mount so would that make something like the flywheel or starter gears bend?

 

[Calan]

I jacked up the engine up and down many times when doing this without the motor mount so would that make something like the flywheel or starter gears bend?

No.

*****

Do a leak-down test to eliminate bent valves and other serious internal problems.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

 

[BLOHS7844]

I'll have to do a leakdown test then... Off the top of your head do u know if autozone has any to rent?

 

[Calan]

Probably.

But, you can buy a brand new one for $35-$40...and they are a good tool to have laying around.

 

[rlacasse1]

I'm sure I forgot something. I have coolant leaking onto the trans but I'm sure thats from a loose hose. I really hope its my flywheel cause I wanna get a lightweight one anyways. I jacked up the engine up and down many times when doing this without the motor mount so would that make something like the flywheel or starter gears bend?

Did you jack the engine up multiple times using the oil pan? Did you crush the oil pan? I know it'd take a lot of jacking, but may as well get down there and see.

 

[BLOHS7844]

No I had proper padding and support under the oil pan. I'll have to pull the flywheel inspection plate and take a look. I really hope its just the starter. Is it possible that I would need to replace my flywheel, starter, and clutch disc? anything else? (assuming the problem lies in that area)

ok so I took the starter out and it didn't look to be in the greatest condition. I tested it outside of the car and it sounded ok but not perfect. I saw one spot on the flywheel where there was fresh metal (shiny) but I'm not sure that area is the problem

 

[Calan]

ok so I took the starter out and it didn't look to be in the greatest condition. I tested it outside of the car and it sounded ok but not perfect. I saw one spot on the flywheel where there was fresh metal (shiny) but I'm not sure that area is the problem

You can't really tell much without putting a load on it.

Take it to Autozone and have them test it. Have them run the test multiple times, as their testing equipment leaves a little to be desired.

 

[BLOHS7844]

Also when taking out the starter, the bolts were fairly loose. No tension in them but they weren't backed out very much

 

[Calan]

If the starter wasn't tight, that would definitely make a hell of a racket as the teeth skipped around on the flywheel.

 

[BLOHS7844]

Ok so when I hook up the battery, the starter starts turning. pos wire is hooked up to terminal closest to the firewall, small wire to the top, and the neg to one of the bolts holding the starter in place. I checked and I really don't think the pos it touching the other terminal or the little wire so could it be a short? And the starter isn't turning the motor, it's just kinda spinning on its own

Should I have it taken in to test it? (like I should have had done before)