Help with turbo and upgrades..NEWBIE!

[erickeri]

Well guys, I'm totally new to DSM'S...I just picked up a 91 talon tsi awd 5 speed. Im going to need help with alot of different things...I did a search on alot of it but there really are no answers...I'm probably wrong..Just really new to all of this....
I had a supercharged car that I parted out because I was tired of spinning the tires..The car was putting out 17psi.(FWD sucks)..I had to upgrade and I always liked DSM's...

Anyway, I bought the car not running, The only thing stopping it from running is the upgraded T3/T4 turbo.(T04E) I having problems finding a 02 housing for it...It is a 5-bolt flange.. I was reading that It does have to be a custom exhaust. Should I do a 2.5 or 3 inch?
Well since I have the bigger turbo do i need to upgrade the injectors too?

What will I have to do so this engine will run with the turbo?
I was reading about the upgrade for the 2g MAF. Is that needed?

The car does run I jumped the battery and it did start but was running Sh*tty, So of the vacuum lines are off from the old turbo being removed...I'm not sure how the external wastegate getts hooked up and not sure how the BOV getts hooked-up...

CAn I post pictures up of the items Im talking about.(BOV, WASTEGATE, HEADER TURBO ETC).

Thanks guys, I really sorry for the dumb questions...If in anyway I broke the furom rules please let me know...This site is very tight on there rules (a good thing)

 

[nfernotalon]

Put up some pics to see what youre talking about

 

[kenamond]

Word on the street is that you'd be better off with a 3" exhaust if you go past 300hp. If you go there, you'll need fuel upgrades (larger injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, and fuel control of some sort). I'm not sure about running the T3/T4 at low boost, but if you can (don't know how low the WG you have will go), you could hold off on fuel upgrades and run low-enough boost for stock fuel. But I'd rewire the pump, as you can get a bit more fuel that way and will want it when you finally upgrade the pump. Don't know about the O2 housing. You can post pics, but make sure they're no wider than something like 600px (I forget the guidance there).

Here's a link for vaccuum lines:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-speed-shop-vacuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html

EDIT: And get a logger sooner than later.

 

[erickeri]

Here is the picture of the turbo with the wastegate..See the little silver ring does that go in between the manifold and the wastegate..It looks like it does. Everything is new the guy i got it from was doing a rx7 project. and had no time for this one. I do have the fmic and the pipes. Now there are 2 spots that a vacuum line can go to. on the wastegate. TOP OR SIDE?

I really have no problem picking up a 255 pump and installing it..

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[nfernotalon]

Here is a T3 o2 housing

T3 o2 housing

 

[erickeri]

Here is a T3 o2 housing

T3 o2 housing

I was thinking about going 3 inch from there back. I can weld it up but not for stainless steel.. (TIG weld). I matched up a 3" pipe to it and it is close. I just don't have anyway of bending the pipe.

 

[erickeri]

Word on the street is that you'd be better off with a 3" exhaust if you go past 300hp. If you go there, you'll need fuel upgrades (larger injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, and fuel control of some sort). I'm not sure about running the T3/T4 at low boost, but if you can (don't know how low the WG you have will go), you could hold off on fuel upgrades and run low-enough boost for stock fuel. But I'd rewire the pump, as you can get a bit more fuel that way and will want it when you finally upgrade the pump. Don't know about the O2 housing. You can post pics, but make sure they're no wider than something like 600px (I forget the guidance there).

Here's a link for vaccuum lines:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-speed-shop-vacuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html

EDIT: And get a logger sooner than later.

I can see in the WG and there looks like a red spring in there...No clue what that means but you guys will...

 

[nfernotalon]

Different colors mean different spring rates, the lowest boost you can run before the WG opens..

 

[kenamond]

If you get the 255 pump, you'll also need an adjustable FPR. The 255 will overrun the stock FPR at low load which will lead to undesired fuel pressure increase in the rail (and a rich condition). Rewire the pump while you're at it. Rakton.com has a good 2g how-to, and there's a 1g article on VFAQ I think. The parts list is pretty similar as I recall, and you can pick it all up at Radio Shack™ for pretty cheap.

As for the external gate, I'm not positive, but one way to check is by applying positive pressure to each and find out which opens the valve. If the valve opens into the WG, I'd say the side nipple is the one you want. Otherwise, it's the top one. This will also tell you what spring you have in the WGA, and that will tell you the lowest boost you can run with that spring. And that'll tell you if you'll need either a weaker spring or fuel upgrades (and a controller).

As for a 3" O2, don't expand the turbine exit taper too much or it hurts more than helps. I think the guidance is 7°-15° or something like that with 7 being best.

You can purchase mandrel bent pipe sections if you can't find anyone local to make them. But I'm not sure how tight of a radius they can make vs. pipe inner diameter.

 

[erickeri]

If you get the 255 pump, you'll also need an adjustable FPR. The 255 will overrun the stock FPR at low load which will lead to undesired fuel pressure increase in the rail (and a rich condition). Rewire the pump while you're at it. Rakton.com has a good 2g how-to, and there's a 1g article on VFAQ I think. The parts list is pretty similar as I recall, and you can pick it all up at Radio Shack™ for pretty cheap.

As for the external gate, I'm not positive, but one way to check is by applying positive pressure to each and find out which opens the valve. If the valve opens into the WG, I'd say the side nipple is the one you want. Otherwise, it's the top one. This will also tell you what spring you have in the WGA, and that will tell you the lowest boost you can run with that spring. And that'll tell you if you'll need either a weaker spring or fuel upgrades (and a controller).

As for a 3" O2, don't expand the turbine exit taper too much or it hurts more than helps. I think the guidance is 7°-15° or something like that with 7 being best.

You can purchase mandrel bent pipe sections if you can't find anyone local to make them. But I'm not sure how tight of a radius they can make vs. pipe inner diameter.

I have no problem rewiring the pump, I think i will do it today or saturday..Walbro pumps are pretty cheap.. I'm not to sure on the afpr .I will have to look into it.
What do you mean I will need a fuel controller??

Should I do the 02 housing 2.5" and then go to 3" ?

Im going to put the manifold and turbo back on today and snap some pictures of it..

 

[erickeri]

Does it matter what AFPR I can use. I see a few on ebay for $50 bucks.

Or does anyone suggest a special AFPR!

Will this work? eBay Motors: S FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR MIT ECLIPSE DSM MIRAGE TALON (item 250215654241 end time Feb-19-08 23:02:36 PST)

I'm not trying to be cheap just see what can work.

 

[kenamond]

I have no problem rewiring the pump, I think i will do it today or saturday..Walbro pumps are pretty cheap.. I'm not to sure on the afpr .I will have to look into it.
What do you mean I will need a fuel controller??

Sorry, what I meant was that your stock fuel system will only support so much airflow which is tied to boost level, and your WGA might not open until the boost is too high for the stock fuel system...so you either have to make it open at a lower boost in that case (weaker spring) or upgrade your FP, injectors, and AFPR...but once you put larger injectors on the car, you need some way of controlling it (chipped ECU, AFC, etc.).

Should I do the 02 housing 2.5" and then go to 3" ?

I'll cop out and say, "maybe." You should search around. It might be a bit more restrictive to have a 2.5" O2 and 2.5" entrance to your DP that flares to 3" than if you had a 2.5" O2 inlet and 3" outlet and full 3" DP. I'm not the expert on that.

Does it matter what AFPR I can use. I see a few on ebay for $50 bucks.

Or does anyone suggest a special AFPR!

Will this work? eBay Motors: S FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR MIT ECLIPSE DSM MIRAGE TALON (item 250215654241 end time Feb-19-08 23:02:36 PST)

I'm not trying to be cheap just see what can work.

Not sure. It has to rise at 1:1 to work on our cars; it has a vaccuum line (just like the stocker) so that if the boost (at the outlet of the injectors) goes up by X psi, then it will increase the fuel pressure in the rail by X (1:1). So if your base fuel pressure is supposed to be 43.5psi, then at 10psi boost, the AFPR will hold the rail at 43.5+10=53.5psi. But at -10psi vaccuum, the AFPR will hold the rail at 43.5-10psi=33.5psi. Also, it should be adjustable so that you can dial in that 43.5psi. Finally it has to flow enough fuel so that it doesn't get overrun by that 255fp (that's why you're putting the AFPR on in the first place - the 255 will outflow the stock FPR, so it "backs up" and the rail pressure goes too high). I don't have one yet (money), but many folks get an Aeromotive AFPR. Search or look at some profiles. Maybe the eBay cheap-o is okay, maybe not.

EDIT: That eBay unit lacks hardware to connect it to the end of the rail. The stock FPR is bolted to the end of the rail, so you need a fitting on the end of the rail where the old FPR bolted that has a fitting for the fuel line that goes to the aftermarket AFPR. The Aeromotive AFPR and install kit comes with all of the lines, AN fittings, and hardware to bolt to the stock rail. But it's a buttload more expensive than that eBay unit. You might be able to get the other parts and piece it together, but remember that if it leaks, you could burn your car to the ground (and die).

EDIT#2: Here is an example with the install kit:
Fuel Injector Clinic Aeromotive AFPR and Install Kit for the Mitsubishi Eclipse - DSMtuners.com
Notice the little silver flange piece with the o-ring...that's how you bolt it to the stock rail. Gives you an idea of the pieces you need anyway.

 

[erickeri]

Ok i see what you are saying a little...
first thing is I will rewire the pump.
then I can order the 255 and the afpr. to start out with..

Does those fittings have to be anodized fittings. I can get a sh*t load of brass fitting..

Im a diesel machanic.

So far the thing that will cost the most will be the DSMLINK right.?

Walbro 255 ---$50 to $75.
afpr ----$50 to $150
fuel rail ----$40 to $80
Injectors -----$150 to $250
DSMLINK-----$400+

I might be jumping ahead to fast...Im going to start off with the exhuast first..

I will do 2.5" 02 housing for about 8" (pretty much like the stock one is then I will go to 3" back.

 

[kenamond]

Ok i see what you are saying a little...
first thing is I will rewire the pump.
then I can order the 255 and the afpr. to start out with..

Does those fittings have to be anodized fittings. I can get a sh*t load of brass fitting..

Im a diesel machanic.

So far the thing that will cost the most will be the DSMLINK right.?

Walbro 255 ---$50 to $75.
afpr ----$50 to $150
fuel rail ----$40 to $80
Injectors -----$150 to $250
DSMLINK-----$400+

I might be jumping ahead to fast...Im going to start off with the exhuast first..

I will do 2.5" 02 housing for about 8" (pretty much like the stock one is then I will go to 3" back.

Not sure if you'll need the fuel rail or not. I forget now, but some DSMs' FPR is not removable, but I'm thinking that's for a N/T.

Also not sure if bronze is kosher.

What are you going to do with the gated exhaust? It's pretty loud if you vent it and you have to get it out of the engine bay or you melt stuff. You can pipe it back into the O2 or DP if you don't wanna sound like a tractor at full boost.

As you can see, you're pushing my knowledge on the details. Might want to do some searching for a bit.

 

[erickeri]

Your right, I was going to pipe the WG down to the ground...I might just put it in the downpipe....Are they that loud?

I know Im asking alot of questions but thanks for given me way to start...I'm going to do the exhuast first. Then I can and will try to find out more things as I go..

One more thing, The 1g dsm's have 2 cooling fans right..with that turbo on I can't fit the other fan in, Can I only use one of them...Is that ok...

 

[kenamond]

Your right, I was going to pipe the WG down to the ground...I might just put it in the downpipe....Are they that loud?

I know Im asking alot of questions but thanks for given me way to start...I'm going to do the exhuast first. Then I can and will try to find out more things as I go..

One more thing, The 1g dsm's have 2 cooling fans right..with that turbo on I can't fit the other fan in, Can I only use one of them...Is that ok...

You can install slim fans that flow more air and are thinner than stock. If you're going to be *using* that turbo, you might have overheating problems. There are other things you can do if you run into overheating issues.

 

[erickeri]

Im having a problem finding a place on-line that i can order the exhaust pipe..

I don't want a thin piece of pipe. I will need something that is 3" J-spaced or U-BEND WILL WORK TOO..