HELP my timing belt shredded!

[kt239]

I am waiting for aaa at the moment because my timing belt got tore up on my way home. I wanted to get the communities input as to how screwed I am so here's what happened. I was cruising at 65 on rt376 and I herd what sounded like road debris under my vehicle. The motor shut down and I pulled to side of the road to see what was the problem and saw my timing belt town up half way. I heard no clunking or obvious signs of valve hitting piston. I want to put my spare oem timing belt on when I get home but here's my question... If my timing marks are all good and lined up there should be no issues correct? As dumb a question it may be I just want to be sure.

 

[BogusSVO]

Check the bolts to the oil pan, make sure you do not have the wr bolt in the hole....

 

[kt239]

Just checked it cause you had me thinking maybe it was but it's not sticking through.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

^ Good advice.

There are 1-2 oil pan bolts that are shorter than the rest. Those go under the crank pulley. If you get the wrong ones in there, they will eat through the timing belt.

 

[BogusSVO]

You figure out the cause of the belt shred?

 

[T is for TURBO]

If you can, try to get a better picture of that oil sprocket. There has to be a reason why it got destroyed, even if the oil pump siezed, the t-belt couldn't destroy the sprocket. It looks to me like there was contact with something.

Could have it been hitting the castle plug that sits behind the oil sprocket?

 

[kt239]

Haven't yet figured it out I took a food break and waiting on ex hands to show. Here some better pictures of the sprocket (as good as the camera allows )..

Back

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Side

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Front

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Front cover

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[kt239]

So it may be a stretch but hear me out and correct my logic of its incorrect. I think the motor shutting down has everything to do with the oil pump possibly crapping the bed. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the oil pump poops out the oil pressure switch would send a signal to the ecu due to the pressure being lost. The ecu will then shut down the motor and all power is lost, correct?

But then that leaves the belt issue and that I believe is due to the picture above. If you look the front case around the sprocket is torn up and ultimately threw metal into the belt ripping it apart.

I'm still in the process of removing the old case to put a case/pump on so I can attempt to rotate the assembly. Which leaves a question lingering in my mind. I got all the case bolts and the crank bolt off and also the three that are on the pan under the case. But to remove it I will need to drop the pan to unbolt the strainer to pull it off correct?

 

[ed1380]

Yes. Oil pan needs to come off

 

[Mjrsplat]

Looks like parts/shavings from the case ate up the sprocket, if the pump isn't seized. Could have been a bad belt or a tensioner that caused the issue.

 

[T is for TURBO]

No, if the oil pump fails, the ECU will NOT kill the engine. The car (stock form) has an idiot light sensor and an oil pressure sensor. The idiot light ONLY turns the idiot light on if it see low oil pressure. The pressure sensor only controls the oil pressure guage in the dash.

If you think the pump failed, you need to disassembly the front case and inspect it. Also, the oil pan needs to come off to inspect the bearings.

EDIT: What stub shaft did you use for the BSE?

 

[bryanwheat]

The nut clearly came loose and the sprocket came off damaging the belt. The gear locks onto the shaft. If the pump locked it would just destroy the belt, it wouldn't back the nut off, that is impossible.

 

[kt239]

Ok so that wouldn't cause the motor to shut off I just wanted to see if that would have been the case. Mostly because of how smooth of a shut down it was cause as I mentioned in the first post there was no clanks or bangs when it turned off. The pump still moves easily but the ex oil sprocket will not slide on the shaft at all so my back up pump is getting called upon.

I don't think a bad tensioner is the culprit because the timing assembly is all brand new oem with the exception of the gates racing belt which was new as well. It must have been the nut finding a way loose and wreaking havoc from there. Still waiting on my ride to get home and drop pan to get things moving I'll have updates at some point today.

 

[T is for TURBO]

The engine just down because it lost time. What stub shaft was used?

Do you have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge? If you do, you can put a drill on the end of the oil pump and give it a good spin to see if its building any pressure.

 

[kt239]

Stub shaft is engine quest brand I got through one of the vendors. I do not have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge so I can't do that test. But I can say this, the oil pressure was spiking a few times on the drive so I found myself taking it easy as possible. That had actually happened a couple other times but always seemed to disappear for a couple days.

Needless to say I made zero progress today I ended up getting stuck at work 4 hours longer then I wanted to. Tomorrow consist of one remote start install so as long as the schedule is accurate I should have time to get moving again.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Okay, the reason I ask, is that there has been discussion that non oem stub stafts have caused problems in the past, specificaly e-bay brand stub shafts. (See thread)

I'm not saying this is your problem, but it's just something to keep in mind. Good luck, and keep us updated!

 

[bryanwheat]

As i said before, the nut came off FIRST. A locked oil pump WILL NOT cause the nut to loosen. First off if some how the pulley could spin on the oil pump shaft (it can not because it is slotted) than it would just tighten the nut because it would be spinning the pulley clockwise. If the pump locked up it would of just made the car jump time and likely stripped a few teeth off the belt and the car would of died. What you have here is that the pulley nut came loose and was rubbing on the cover and when it slid out the outer edge of the pulley destroyed the belt and when the belt got bad enough it slipped time and shut off.

 

[thomcasey]

Had the same issue 3 weeks ago. Bolt came off, belt came off. Smoked the head (you will want to check the cam seats, you probably spun one of those too), bent valves, and locked the pump up. Swapped it with my spare motor, ENSURING I put some loctite on the nut for the BSE this time.

Now, it is possible that the nut came off, causing too much pressure on the pump, causing the pump to lock-up, but definitely the nut is the source of the issue, as was mine.

 

[T is for TURBO]

As i said before, the nut came off FIRST. A locked oil pump WILL NOT cause the nut to loosen.

Maybe I'm missing somthing, but I don't recall the OP saying the nut was loose? If it was, that would certainly explain a lot.

 

[kt239]

The sprocket/nut did fall out when I pulled the timing cover so that is the source of the problem. Crazy part is I did use lock tight on the threads but I used blue thinking it be adequate but red will be used now. I got to find something at work here to pry that damn pan off cause that rtv is a monster. After that I can further assess the bottom end and see how she rotates with a belt on and take it from there.

 

[ed1380]

Just curious, how tight did you tighten it

 

[kt239]

I am not 100% sure but it was at or around 30ft/lbs, no more if anything 2 or 3 less.

 

[danielbo91]

Thats your problem you should have torque that bolt to 55lbs of torque thats why it came off..

 

[bryanwheat]

Thats your problem you should have torque that bolt to 55lbs of torque thats why it came off..

It is actually 36-43 ft/lbs

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

It is actually 36-43 ft/lbs

Really starting to love this guy.

 

[danielbo91]

Humm yeah you right. i was thinking newtons is 55 meters is actually 40 foot lbs of torque.