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Help! Auto trans acting very strange

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housegsx

15+ Year Contributor
2,455
38
May 28, 2004
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
I have a 96 Tsi awd automatic. It is completely stock. The transmission has been acting strange recently and I'm not even sure how to explain it.

Sometimes it seems like it's slow to get back into 1st when accelerating just after a stop. Lately, it also seems like the transmission likes to mess with me the air conditioning is on. :confused: It would feel like it's slipping or kicking in and out gear real fast or something like that. Now on Friday it seems like it is acting strange even when the A/C is off. I was cruising slow in the city and also going down the highway and it would feel like it was kick in and out again and it made the car feel like it had a miss.
Also, every once in a while it seems like it wants to hold 2nd or 3rd gear a little long and won't upshift until I pick up more speed.

Any ideas or what's going on here? i've searched around some but can't get a definitive answer on what problems a bad end clutch or torque converter could cause. I really don't know what it could be, I'm not to familiar with automatics.

Also, I put a new trans filter and all new ATF4 Castrol sythetic fluid in it about a year ago, so that shouldn't be a problem.
 
Hmm, I took it out again and it was awful. I came home and threw another quart of fluid in it for the hell of it. (It was on the low side but still on the dip stick) It drove like shit for about another mile then BOOM!, it started shifting like butter again, no in and out of gear, and holding gear til redline! Maybe it was just low. :coy:
 
Nevermind, it's still acting weird. It was going in and out under acceleration again tonight. WTF?
 
I know this is an old thread, but my DSM was doing something similar this morning, like she got little bursts of energy and it was up a big hill too. She was at 12.1 AFR and RPM's wernt "slipping" everything looked normal. I know nothing about transmissions....does this sound like what yours was doing?

-Ana
 
I don't even know how to describe it. I think I was having 2 problems at the same time. One was ignition related and one was transmission related. I replaced the transistor module by the coilpack and the ignition trouble seems to be gone.

The problem of it feeling like going in and out of gear may have been because of the ignition problem, but it sure didn't feel like it. It also seemed to be much worse when it was warmer outside and it's been cold here for a while so it's hard to tell until Spring.

It does still feel slow going back to first gear when coming to a quick stop and trying to pull out again. That may just be because it's a transmission from the 90's. :idontknow:

It felt like if I was driving a manual car and just kicking the clutch pedal while accelerating, if that makes any sense.
 
Look up the blue wire mod and do it (but on a switch). If this fixes the issue then you have a problem with your pressure relief solenoid. If it doesn't fix it then you need to have a bit more fun and probably take the valve body out to check the pressure relief valve and mess with the pressure adjustment.

I can't guarantee that this is the problem but it is what I expect based on your descriptions. Depending on how long you've driven it as is and how hard you may have damaged the clutches enough (not just the end clutches) to need to rebuild or replace the transmission. Either way completely cleaning every valve and passage in the valve body will do wonders.
 
I've wondered what the symptoms of bad end clutches were before but could never find a good expalination. I was thinking about replacing them just because I heard it's easy and only $80.

Mork, if my problem comes back I will definitely try the blue wire mod. Thanks.
 
I've dealt with many end clutch issues. This doesn't really sound like end clutches but it isn't a bad idea to get them since you will run into the problem at some point and they are easy to move over to a new transmission.

End clutches exhibit a few behaviors the first being the most common when the OD clutch goes out (for the same reason that clutches slip first in high gear) the behavior is obvious when the transmission shifts into OD and simply free revs and hitting the OD button and dropping into 3rd lets the transmission work properly in 1-3. Usually this is sudden and has very few warning indicators beforehand but sometimes you will notice some slipping in OD beforehand.

Another symptom is when putting the car in gear it takes a few moments before it catches and you can move forward. Sometimes this is also accompanied by sharp and violent downshifts when coming to a stop. I believe the sharp downshifts come largely from the tcu adjusting line pressure up to make up for slipping and slow shifts coming from the damaged clutches. This will also quickly kill motor mounts.

Finally rather uncommon but still occasionally an issue is when the first gear clutch goes out. This happens when you either drop into neutral while revved or brake boost and the car will simply not move, or move just for a moment then stop (shifting from 2nd down to 1st for takeoff) but still having reverse. Sometimes adding or changing transmission fluid will fix this temporarily and you will quickly notice burned transmission fluid when your end clutches are going.


There are two non-catastrophic issues with these transmission AFAIK which is end clutches and line pressure. Another uncommon issue that I've found is dirty valve bodies. The final issues are uncommon but easy to diagnose and these involve electronics eg: pulse generators, shift solenoids, vss, etc. and these are easily diagnosed by the tcu trouble codes Talon, Laser, Eclipse 1G Info DSM if the tcu outputs a series of neverending short sweeps then it is probably good with no codes, and if it has no output then it is probably a bad tcu. Of course if it has two different times for its output you've found a tcu giving you trouble codes and common sense says you should probably look them up.

FWIW tcu failure is not uncommon in 1gs.

I have owned the car since 139,xxx and the end clutches have never been replaced that I know of. So those might be shot I take it?

End clutches are a possibility but if you aren't actually slipping then I don't think it is necessarily end clutches. Start by checking your motor mounts if the transmission is just slapping the car around.

Of course if you really would like you can pull the end clutches out and inspect them. Posting pictures of both sides of your end clutches and steels will likely allow us to diagnose if they are the problem. I can almost guarantee you have warped steels if they are stock but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the problem, just that they aren't healthy anymore.
 
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Mork, can you be more specific on the end clutch issue whenever 1st goes out? I had a buddy who neutral dropped my 95tsi. The car wouldn't pull in forward after being put into park and back into gear. I assumed until reading this it was destroyed TC or front pump. The repairs seemed too expensive but the transmission is out of the car and I thought I might take a look. If it's an end clutch issue I might decide to keep the car instead of selling it to a local member of tuners
 
I'm out of the country right now so replies to subsequent questions may take some time.

There isn't much to elaborate on. If you've roasted the end clutches badly enough in low gear you'll find that you'll lose power there before OD. Rarely the car will want to pull just a little bit when you first put it in gear then stop completely and act like it is free revving in neutral. This happens when the car sits at idle in 2nd then shifts down to first as soon as there is throttle or load. More commonly if you've done this then the car will just free rev all the time. Usually reverse will still work fine but that isn't guaranteed.

It is far more likely that you've destroyed end clutches rather than the TC or pump. Both of those parts are rather robust whereas the end clutches are not. It is unfortunate that you've already taken the transmission out or this would have been very easy to verify by just borrowing a clutch pack from another car or taking the $90 plunge to just change them.

As for replacing the TC or pump, both would be easy and cheap if you were willing to take the transmission out. Usually someone in an area has destroyed an automatic that is just sitting in their garage and these parts are usually good. If you were local to me I could hook you up with a pump but not a torque converter and I don't think they are worth shipping though if you decide you want to replace it let me know and I'll only ask that you compensate me for my time pulling it off plus the shipping.

Be very careful putting that transmission back in as well or you will crack the pump. When you put it in make sure that the torque converter is slid well onto the shaft. This is very easy to do wrong and will result in a small pop and a transmission that only whines and wont move the car. The way to check is to know that the torque converter is deeply inside the bell housing. People's fingers are different sizes but it should be most of a thumb inside the bell housing to be all the way in or about 1.5". It will either be in or it wont, it hangs up at at least three if not four spots and they are universal. The one that most people get wrong is the one where the TC is just a quarter or half in inside the bell housing. Another way to check is that once you can just barely get a bolt through the alignment dowels see if you can turn the engine, if you can't then your TC is wedged.
 
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