The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support ExtremePSI
Please Support STM Tuned

Head Noise at higher RPM

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

XiKeiyaZI

15+ Year Contributor
6,967
55
Dec 28, 2008
Goldsboro, North_Carolina
Okay, so this has been bugging me so I figured I would post it -

The Talon is now up and running and doing so smoothly. I've driven it and it's performed like butter. Even gave it a single half throttle boost-load and was extremely impressed with the power produced as it is untuned. Held 14.4-15.0 AFR the entire time. Only brought it up to 5500rpms.

Anyway, one thing I've noticed is that from 3000rpm - 4200rpm there is a... ticking noise? Coming from the head. At first I was afraid that I didn't flush the engine well enough and that some sort of material from the head had made it's way to the rod bearings - but upon an oil drain I found no flakes, only a little bit of aluminum contamination/glitter from the rebuild as expected with any rebuild/machine work. So I'm now on my third cycle of oil and about 5 miles in, and about 2 hours of run time total. Nothing on the dip stick and no 'knocking' the be heard of. However, driving it, from that RPM range, there is a very quiet but high-pitched ticking. If I manually bump the throttle body while under the hood, it -sometimes- produces the same effect, but again it's hardly noticeable.

I do have Revised lifters. I was afraid that it might be a collapsed lifter but upon trying to depress them I had no luck. I see no shavings of any sort on top of the pistons to indicate valve contact and Pressure across the board is 155. Idles great. Pulls amazing. Now these are BC 272's on Supertech Dual Valve Springs, Titanium Retainers, and 1mm over valves. Is this usual? Can Revised lifters produce 'lifter tick'? Eh? Like I said, it's coming from the head.

Also! When I shut the car off, any time, there is a multiple clicking noise that slows down over a few seconds to nothing coming from the area of the PCV. Again, no idea what this could be. Never encountered it.

Just a bit concerned/curious. I'll try to get a video if possible.

Edit - I did my best to reproduce it for about 20 minutes - couldn't. Will try again tomorrow and see if I can capture it.
 
I just finished a rebuild also and I have probably 30 miles on it. First 20 miles via the motoman method and I have now done a few 3rd gear pulls! I also have that strange ticking sound when I shut it off. I also have dual valve springs. I have never heard that sound on any other of my heads until this one. Sounds to be in the VC for sure!
 
I had a very similar issue and followed the same diagnostic path as you are. Turned out to be a collapsed lifter. I couldn't depress any of the lifters by hand but the sound was persistent and really started to worry me. I went ahead and pulled the lifters out to check more thoroughly and found that one was collapsed; they reason I couldn't depress it by hand is because it was bottomed out and jammed. I finally figured it out by comparing the height of the lifters side by side on the bench.
 
I had a very similar issue and followed the same diagnostic path as you are. Turned out to be a collapsed lifter. I couldn't depress any of the lifters by hand but the sound was persistent and really started to worry me. I went ahead and pulled the lifters out to check more thoroughly and found that one was collapsed; they reason I couldn't depress it by hand is because it was bottomed out and jammed. I finally figured it out by comparing the height of the lifters side by side on the bench.

Damn. Figured it might be something like that. Looks like I'll be pulling lifters. I've never actually tried to remove them with the cams in the vehicle, but today we'll find out if I can. Hah. I know it's possible but with my luck, things go flying.

Better than valve impact.
 
It sounds like a sticky lifter or two is your problem. They can vary in sound when they get plugged up or stop functioning.. Sometimes the click will be faint, other times it can be loud as hell.
Make sure you bleed all your lifters completely. They should all have a good spring to them all when you push the ends in with your thumb, but you should also be able to bottom it out. Ive had a few sets of 3g lifters now. When I opened one package of them, 3 were already not working properly. I could have opened them up and cleaned them Im sure, but I went with others ones I had kicking around.
 
It sounds like a sticky lifter or two is your problem. They can vary in sound when they get plugged up or stop functioning.. Sometimes the click will be faint, other times it can be loud as hell.
Make sure you bleed all your lifters completely. They should all have a good spring to them all when you push the ends in with your thumb, but you should also be able to bottom it out. Ive had a few sets of 3g lifters now. When I opened one package of them, 3 were already not working properly. I could have opened them up and cleaned them Im sure, but I went with others ones I had kicking around.

Good info, thanks. Once I read up a bit on the proper way to remove and inspect them without uninstalling the Cams I'll get to work on identifying which is bad/clogged/bled down/etc. Certainly don't want to deal with any valve damage.
 
Removed all of the lifters and cleaned them - There is one, where the noise seemed to be coming from in the head, that does not extend as far as the rest. Perhaps by only 1-2mm. It also has a crease on the lip that goes around the lifter 'nipple'. It does compress and extend, but it is shorter than all of the rest. I assume this one would be the one that is problematic?

Can one purchase lifters individually?
 
That's actually exactly where I got one. :) As soon as I posted I thought " Damn, Bruce might sell em'! "
 
Got the single new lifter in today and I must say that I'm a little worried. It looks like it is 'taller' than the rest. Enough that a #10 washer would make up the difference between it and the original ones. I'm no expert with lifters, but would this be safe to toss in and go?
 
Here is a picture of the lifters side by side. The one on the right is one of my good, old revised lifters. The one on the left is the new revised lifter. Same diameter - different height. Neither one has fluid in them and I can compress them completely with my fingers. Is it going to be safe to run? o-o...I'd like to get the Talon up again asap.
 

Attachments

  • Lifters.jpg
    Lifters.jpg
    32.1 KB · Views: 78
That actually looks like two different styles of lifter. I know Bruce sells the Top Line brand... Are yours OE? I wonder if there is a difference between various "revised" lifters. I have a full set of Top Lines in my head, I'll yank one out tomorrow and measure it if you want a comparison reading.
 
I just ran out and measured a loose "revised" lifter I had on the bench; unfortunately, I don't know if it's OE or aftermarket. FWIW it was exactly 2 1/8" tall, no oil.
 
For the ones that Bruce sells -

Overall free length = 2.130" (54.12mm)

The previous ones -

Overall free length = 2"

The new one has less pressure on it. So I'm thinking it's meant to be a little taller. I can press it down a bit easier. The shorter ones have a bit more pressure on them. If I put a flat edge on the tallest one and press down, it's easy until I meet the height of the shorter one, then it balances out. I mean, thinking about it - people toss these in their heads (the ones from Bruce) and run them just fine, so I don't see how it would hurt in any way. Correct?
 
I run a full set of Top Line's that I got from Bruce without issue. Being that they're hydraulic and self-adjusting I'd imagine that you would be fine. I ran mix/match revised lifters on my last head without any valve-train issues.
 
Sure appreciate the feedback. Didn't figure it would hurt but wanted some experienced input. :) Now once my rod bearings make it I'll be able to install them back and test for that tick.
 
I wonder if there is a difference between various "revised" lifters.

There are.

Version two is shorter than one and three. Both one and three are the same height although they are easily differentiable given the 3mm top oil port (3rd gen) vs the tiny original (size unknown).

Also notable are the differences in oil supply hole, versions one and three being larger than two.. But I think this is a result of necessity instead of function, as the shorter lifter (version two) seems to be out of room for the larger hole.

Here's some pictures I stole from someone cool. You know who you are :cool:

From left to right, versions one, two, and three.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Awesome. Never knew there were variations of them until I ran into this issue. Good to have those pictures. They certainly help!
 
Sure haven't bud. When I tried I wasn't able to get it to replicate the noise. :/ Already have the lifters out.
 
Update - The noise is gone. It took me a few days to notice it. I knew something was -different- and it finally hit me : No noise.

Seems the lifters were the issue. At start up they 'tick' once or twice until oil pressure raises into the head, but after that it's quiet as a sleeping kitten. Final issue diagnosis : Failing Lifter.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top