Head Gasket Leak???

[sdmelzer]

So I am super confused. I have white smoke coming from the exhaust. It smells sweet, like coolant, so I am pretty sure I am burning coolant. However, coolant levels don't seem to be dropping at all. Oil levels are steady as well. No coolant seems to be mixing with oil, and both fluids are clean. With the radiator cap of and the car idling, no bubbles are coming from the radiator.

Could this still mean a cracked or leaking head gasket given that the white smoke is the only symptom? I just cant think of anything else it could be, and the smoke is NOT water vapor. I would just think that a leak in the gasket would cause coolant levels to drop......

*Edit- Compression test done, results further down*

 

[2wOrLd]

How long ago did it start smoking?
A very unnoticeable amount of water can make a lot of smoke.
Very first thing you should do is a compression check and secondly if available, a leakdown test.
Let us know what your compression levels are and we can help you advance your diagnosis.

 

[LarryJoe]

Having the exact same issue! No mixing at all. My test results came out 1: 139 2: 145 3:145 4: 159.

 

[BogusSVO]

A coolant pressure test may show a weak HG.

This test will show any leaks in a coolant sysyem.

 

[sdmelzer]

I'm getting a compression test done tomorrow, but for now I have noticed a change. Coolant levels seem to be holding steady, but the oil is dropping. But I SWEAR the smoke is a wispy white, with no blue tint to it at all, unless I am mistaken. Can a very small oil leak cause white instead of blue smoke?

 

[97gsxIA]

Doing a coolant pressure test and a compression/leak down test will confirm any diagnosis involving a headgasket issue. I would advise doing the tests and not worrying about guessing what else the problem could be. Knowing this information can give you an idea of your motor's health and give you peace of mind.

 

[sdmelzer]

Ok guys, so I just did a compression test. All of my cylinders are at ~188. What the hell. So does this rule out a head gasket leak, and if so, what is causing my white smoke??

Also, not to double post, but could the issue be condensation/water in the gas tank? The gas is probably pretty old.

***COMPRESSION TEST NUMBERS WERE WRONG***

 

[camcamdaman90]

Ssed Having just felt with the same issue on my spyder, here's what I did to rule out all possible sources of smoke. Also does smoke start immediately or after engine warm up?

1st I would eliminate the exhaust system as a factor, in my case the OEM muffler went bad after being soaked in oil... Ugh... Unbolt your flex pipe just after the turbo and let it run for a bit, not to pong because it causes a massive increase in temp in your engine bay, if you have no smoke, put a new exhaust on.

2nd if it is smoking after you Unbolt the flex pipe you can more readily tell what kind of smoke it is. If its oil with those compression numbers my guess is your pcv is clogged or flooded. Check your intake for residue and clean it our while your at it. This gives you time to check condition of all vacuum connections at the intake which might have messed with your pcv's function. This happened to my vehicle as well. If its coolant I'm very sry to say it ad gasket time. The coolant system is sealed and at no point should you ever have it in the chambers or in the oil. If its not mixed then you may have caught it early which is great because you just saved an already expensive repair from becoming a full blown catastrophy.

Best of luck to you and let us know what you find!

 

[sdmelzer]

First Question: It smokes at all times, even immediately after start up. If you give it gas, more smoke comes out. However, the smoke is a wispy white; it isn't thick at all.

Also, I have the N/A non turbo model Eclipse, so I dont have all the vacuum lines you are talking about. However, there is a valve on the left of the engine that connects a hose from the cylinder head to the main air intake hose. It is crimped a little bit and held together with duct tape, although I'm pretty sure it isnt leaking and wouldnt cause white smoke.

Additionally, one of my spark plugs was a little messed up (the wire itself). Dunno if that could be the source of the smoke.

 

[camcamdaman90]

Haha I should have asked it were turbo or not. My mistake. That crimped hose is your pcv tube, its coming off of the passenger side of the crank case right? In my dealings with dsm cars the vacuum lines around the intake manifold are generally the same in na and turbo versions. It would be a good idea to swap that plug out, but a bad plug wouldn't give you smoke so much as a fuel smell. From what you have told us the exhaust smells sweet? That's the propolyglyconol (spelling?) Or the sugar like structures in the coolant burning off. Like the Wiseman said it would benifit. You to do a coolant system pressure test. Swipe your finger inside the exhaust tip and see what you find. Oil will make your finger, well oily and black, fuel tends to be a dry black soot, coolant is a slimy water.

 

[sdmelzer]

Ill swipe my finger tomorrow once it gets warmer here, although I have done it before and the muffler was dry. In regards to the valve, its not the PCV valve. The PCV on my engine comes straight out of the top as an elbow joint. This valve is copper. I found this pic and circled the PCV valve and the valve I am talking about. The PCV is in green, the valve in question is in red.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Also, in regards to the sweet smell, it could just be that I like the smell of gas and oil . Because when I smell the coolant and then smell the exhaust, it is definitely not the same.

 

[WES_393]

The port on the left of the valve cover (circled in red) is not a valve, it's just an open port. You definitely want that connected so that fresh air can be drawn into the crank case. However, that port being closed off will not cause smoking issues since excess pressure can still vent through the PCV valve.

 

[sdmelzer]

Ah ok, thanks for clarification on the port. I felt the inside of the muffler today, and it was dry. The smoke itself doesn't feel wet like condensation. It's just wispy smoke. Coolant levels are still holding steady, as are oil levels. I think I am going to drain the oil and refill with high mileage and fill the gas tank with 93 octane and see if that helps the issue at all.

Barring that helping, I will take a look at the exhaust and PCV valve, even though I am almost positive that isnt the issue. If all this fails, I am at a loss. A leak down test may be in order. Can old engines just plain smoke without a noticeable leak in any fluids??

 

[Cdc1221]

Not unless its running to rich, but that and the symptoms of it have already been pointed out in this thread. Only thing i can think of is if its getting water in the intake track outside the coolant system. Like condensation off the ac etc. Have you pressure checked the coolant system like 2 members have already suggested?

 

[sdmelzer]

Ok guys, so I had time to do extensive testing today, and I have changed my mind about the cause of the problem. Coolant levels remain the same, but oil levels have slowly dropped. There is also black residue in the muffler (oil?), and when viewed from a distance the smoke does take on a slightly bluish tint.

So lets assume that the problem is related to oil and not coolant. Now is there any way that oil could cause smoke out of the exhaust EXCEPT being burnt in the cylinders? Like a leak somehow getting in the pipes? Keep in mind that the compression was solid for all four.

 

[BogusSVO]

Does it smoke all the time? or just after idle periods such as stop lights and drive thus?

You may just need valve stem seals

 

[sdmelzer]

Smokes at all times, moreso when you give it gas. The muffler is coated with black (assuming it is oil) that wipes off in smears. I have no idea what oil the previous owner had in it, so I would assume that it would be a good idea to throw in some high mileage and maybe some additives?

So I threw in high mileage oil, and it completely stopped the smoke. For like 5 minutes. Then it came back just the same. Ideas?

 

[rollinsmoke]

My 97gs was doing the same thing before I rebuilt the head sounds like to me its probaly gonna be valve guide seals when I went through it I just pulled the head had it gone through and rebuilt then threw on a new head gasket set and while I was iñ there put a new timing belt/water pump set cost me around 400 and a week worth of hell but I shouldn't have any major problems for awhile

But there again my car smoked like a freight train and was burnnin a quart every 50-100 miles but was 180 psi on conpression

 

[sdmelzer]

170k on the engine. If I am not having any coolant leaking issues does that completely rule out head gasket issues? Im planning on getting a coolant test done tomorrow just to completely rule out that issue, thought I am 97% sure coolant is good. What kind of cost am I looking at if I have to get the valve seals replaced by a shop? And will valve seals allow progressively more oil to pass into the cylinders when you give it gas?

 

[volcakid8787]

Just had my head redone at a local machine shop. Didn't touch the valves at all but I did ask how much it would be. Quote was around two hundred. If you get entire new valves, it will cost you a little more. The ones I found were recommended in another forum I found. Mitsubishi 4g63 Stock Size H P Stainless Steel Valves Guides 3mm Lashers | eBay

 

[sdmelzer]

Ah ok that doesn't sound too bad. I have a friend that might be willing to do it for pretty cheap labor cost.

I'm going to try to get a video of the smoke out of the exhaust so that you guys can chime in with what you think it is. I am still wavering between all white (coolant) and a hint of blue (oil).

 

[t56speed]

sounds like to me maybe oil if the coolant level isnt dropping but the oil is. Makes it kinda obvious. I bet its valve stem seals. Just my 02. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[sdmelzer]

I'm gonna run compression tests again today, both wet and dry, to try to confirm it isnt the rings. Assuming that clears, I'm gonna go rent a coolant pressure tester and block tester to try to rule out head gasket leak 100%. I think that pretty much leaves the valve stem seals if all those tests pass, huh?

 

[born2tune]

Grab a piece of paper, hold it an inch away vertically from your exhaust exit and have someone bounce the rev limiter a little and check for traces of oil on the paper or simple wetness of humidity and/or something else. Its better than trying to inhale it or to just see it.

 

[sdmelzer]

So one of my friends was over to help diagnose, and suggested that I rerun the compression test with his professional gauge since the numbers didnt look right to him. Well, he was right.

COMPRESSION:

Dry: 1 - 165 2 - 170 3 - 170 4 - 155
Wet: 1 - 174 2 - 180 3 - 180 4 - 180


Given the numbers, do you guys think it is headgasket or the piston rings in cylinder 4? I've read here that a big difference in dry and wet leads to piston rings.