Hahns Racecraft Super 20g or Precision T & E 5031E .50 trim???

[DSM til the end]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this whole forum thing so I'll try to do this the right way. I have been debating and asking around to every DSM tune shop that I can possibly find and everyone I bump into at shows and on the street with a DSM, but I feel like I still don't have enough info to make my final decision, so hopefully someone can help me out!!! I am looking to upgrade the factory t25 turbo on my 97 eclipse gst and I don't know which path to take...I was looking at the evo III big 16g and the t28 but everyone i talk to says that the evo III big 16g is the better of the two for the higher rpm range, which is what i want but they also say that it doesn't really show too much improvement as far as power goes in comparison to the t25, but I was leaning more towards this turbo anyways if I can get the results that I want! I'm looking to be about 350-400hp max and still have factory internals besides maybe cams down the road. I'm currently running at 15psi, and would like to be at 18-20, unless I can get the results with the settings i'm at now with the right turbo. Now if anyone can give me any recommendations on any of those two that would be great, but I have to get to the point that I started writing this for. I was looking around and found that Hahns Racecraft makes a super 20g that is suppose to support 300 to 500 hp. I want some room for internal work later on so i want a turbo that can support the 350 hp now and have some room for improvement later down the road, with a reasonable spool up rate..(around 28-3200 rpms) They claim this puts out 350 hp at 15 psi, which is good enough for me now. Hahn Racecraft - Turbo Upgrades and Parts...check it out!!!
Now the second turbo that I was looking at was the Precision T & E SCM5031E .50 trim... Now this turbo is rated for 460 hp at a spool up of 3200 rpms, which is a little better for me cause I have a fwd and have a hard time keeping her from spinning!!! Oh and did I mention a want something that is bolt on!!! EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Precision T & E SCM5031 Turbocharger : Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99 : (460 HP)
I mean I want something that will beat mildly modified sti's and evo's without much hassle, or at least stay with them anyways. now i have most of the necessary supporting mods, which aren't listed in my profile, that I will need for any set up, so any help from anyone who knows their stuff or have had experience with any of these turbo's, your opinion is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks

 

[silver bullit]

Your gonna need more than injectors and a fuel pump to run ether those turbos.

Id do a evo 3 16g with the bolt on kit, at 10 psi on the 16g it will be like running 16 on the t25. You can run 10 psi on the 16g and be fine. But youll need more mods to bump the boost past 10.

You are gonna need more mods though to support the other 2 turbos.

I liked my 50 trim same one above, i seen 20 psi at 3500, but i am awd, youll just spin, unless you know how to peddle it.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

...but they also say that it doesn't really show too much improvement as far as power goes in comparison to the t25

WTF?? Looks like these people need to do some more reading. Curt Brown is pushing close to 500 WHP on his, but this is crazy tuning voodoo magic there so don't expect to get close to that.

As for your 2 turbo options, they both fit for your set up (FWD). The 5031E is a non ball bearing turbo so it will lag just a bit so you have time to get some momentum going before your tires break lose. Same with the Hahn 20G. No ball bearings there either so same principle. You also might want to check out some of FP's MHI turbos that they have so you have a little more to choose from in terms of a 20G.

FP DSM Turbos

But as with any of these turbos, when they spool up, you are most likely going to have to peddle it like silver bullit said.

Other then that, what do you have as a tuning device? If you plan to grow with this set up you are going to need bigger injectors that some tuning devices (like a plane ol' AFC) can't control without making your timing skyrocket.

Hope this helps .

 

[rarson]

EVO III 16g not too much of a power increase over the T-25? HA! Try running 11's on a T-25 with no nitrous, Seriously, the 14b is even a big jump over the T-25. As for Hahn... no thanks.

 

[casperfast]

EVO III 16g not too much of a power increase over the T-25? HA! Try running 11's on a T-25 with no nitrous, Seriously, the 14b is even a big jump over the T-25. As for Hahn... no thanks.

i couldnt agree more. the 14b is a big improvement over the T-25. mine feels like 15psi on the t25 only at 8-10. i am still waiting till i have all supporting to go with the big 16g. you can get 300-400 HP easy on a big 16g. on a fwd i would be worried about traction.

 

[DSMfamily9295]

Unfortunately for you, traction is your worst enemy. Anymore than 300-350hp with a FWD and your just wasting power (and money on supporting mods).
My 1g FWD is only running a 14b @ 16 psi and it requires a lot of pedal work to keep from spinning the tires. That car doesn't even turn 300.
I was talking with one of the guys that work in the shop at JNZ tuning. He's running a 16g in his 1g FWD and constantly spins in 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd.
The owner of RIP MODS in Staten Island asked me if I wanted to sell one of my 14b's 'cause a customer of his was looking to go back to it from a EVO 3 16g 'cause he was sick of changing tires.
My point is....Big dyno numbers are impressive, but once you exceed the usable power that you can get traction for, all your doing is keeping tire companies in business. With the FWD, anything bigger than a 16g or a big t-28, your wasting money.
I can't speak for the 20g because I have had no experience with them, but I have the PTE 50 trim on my VR4 and it has no problem breaking street tires free over 6000rpm in 1st and 2nd (rev limiter is set at 7600). I would never put a 50 trim on my FWD 'cause the list of supporting mods is long and expensive. TOO expensive just to burn off the tires. (Would be better off taking that money and investing it in shares of Goodyear instead, at least it wouldn't be wasted).
As far as straight bolt-on, the big t-28 is suppose to support up to 340hp and it's a straight swap.
You say you have all the supporting mods, so with the 16g or Big t-28, all you will really need is a set of 550 injectors, a 255 pump, a fpr, a decent method of controlling the injectors, a boost controller, a three inch exhaust and 2100 lb clutch. And soon, you will join the rest of us FWD freaks in complaining that we have to buy ANOTHER set of tires!

 

[haioku-rocket]

Unfortunately for you, traction is your worst enemy. Anymore than 300-350hp with a FWD and your just wasting power (and money on supporting mods).
My 1g FWD is only running a 14b @ 16 psi and it requires a lot of pedal work to keep from spinning the tires. That car doesn't even turn 300.
I was talking with one of the guys that work in the shop at JNZ tuning. He's running a 16g in his 1g FWD and constantly spins in 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd.
The owner of RIP MODS in Staten Island asked me if I wanted to sell one of my 14b's 'cause a customer of his was looking to go back to it from a EVO 3 16g 'cause he was sick of changing tires.
My point is....Big dyno numbers are impressive, but once you exceed the usable power that you can get traction for, all your doing is keeping tire companies in business. With the FWD, anything bigger than a 16g or a big t-28, your wasting money.
I can't speak for the 20g because I have had no experience with them, but I have the PTE 50 trim on my VR4 and it has no problem breaking street tires free over 6000rpm in 1st and 2nd (rev limiter is set at 7600). I would never put a 50 trim on my FWD 'cause the list of supporting mods is long and expensive. TOO expensive just to burn off the tires. (Would be better off taking that money and investing it in shares of Goodyear instead, at least it wouldn't be wasted).
As far as straight bolt-on, the big t-28 is suppose to support up to 340hp and it's a straight swap.
You say you have all the supporting mods, so with the 16g or Big t-28, all you will really need is a set of 550 injectors, a 255 pump, a fpr, a decent method of controlling the injectors, a boost controller, a three inch exhaust and 2100 lb clutch. And soon, you will join the rest of us FWD freaks in complaining that we have to buy ANOTHER set of tires!

Don't agree. I have seen 400WHP cars lay down 3rd gear no problem, there are alot of factors; suspension, tuning, tires, spool etc. Fast spooling turbos like the 16g, have lots of traction problem because of how hard they hit. I went from a 16g, 18g, and to my 50 trim (next step is HX40 Pro..on the way ). What I can tell you at 24 psi and 100 octane fuel even my evo spins all 4 tires in first gear and gets tires spin first part of second gear. My 50 trim at the same boost level was quite a bit better at hooking up, much less tire spin but pulls significantly harder. The 600 RPM later spool really helped out with traction. A FWD would benefit even more.

LAG is your friend

 

[haioku-rocket]

DSM till the end....

I don't think you will get any 50 trim, or 20g to have full boost at 3200 RPM Thats expecting too much. My 16g saw full boost at 3400, my 18g saw it at 3700, and my 50 trim with a stage 3 wheel sees 3900. Ohh and these are not just looking at a tach and boost gauge. These RPMs were logged on a Power FC on the Evo. The 50 trim and the 20g should see spool times, about the same. Both should make 350 WHP properly tuned with the right supporting mods on pump.

Don't the 3900 spool scare you away on the 50 trim/20g. Lag is way overrated. It is actually suprisingly very responsive turbo on the street. As you can see in my previous post I am going to the HX40(70 lb-min turbo). Honestly I like the 50 trim in your selection. The price of the Hahn 20gs would scare me away personally. I just don't think they are worth the price. Just make sure you get the supporting mods for the 50 trim and you will love it. great turbo.

 

[rarson]

haioku-rocket is right on the money. A 16g spools fast and hard, even though it seems laggy compared to a stock, boring-ass T-25. Hell, a friend of mine had an old FWD 1g and with nothing but a boost controller it would spin the tires from a roll in second. Not because it was making gobs of power, but because that wonderful torque bump that turbos give kicked in so fast. Higher horsepower setups on FWDs can definitely benefit from increased lag.

That said, a Hahn S20g, in my opinion, will give you increased lag with no power benefit. That is, a regular 20g will probably spool faster and make at least as much power, so what's the point? The turbine housing (again, IMO) is just not very well suited to the rest of the turbo, and when you look at the increased cost of running that turbo (Garrett manifold, for instance), it doesn't make any sense. I had a friend who had a S20G and a bunch of other expensive parts thrown on (at?) his car and all I can say is that my 16g ran circles around him (but then, my setup was pieced together a lot more carefully than his). His best dyno was somewhere around 280 whp or so, and I'm surely making over 300.

I just double-checked their website to make sure, and yup, they're still using those Garrett 10cm2 turbine housings on otherwise plain Mitsubishi turbos (excuse me, "ultramodern Mitsubishi wheel and housing designs"). Seems like the rest of the world has been improving their turbo setups while Hahn remains stuck in a time warp. Why would anyone buy one of these? I don't get it.

 

[urbanrcr]

I would stay away from Hahn products. I would go with an Evo III 16g its good power at a good price.

 

[DSM til the end]

Ok ok, I'm getting some good advice but I think I need to narrow my question down. I've got the fact that I will need to peddle a bigger turbo, and any upgrade is better then factory! , but like i said, supporting mods like injectors clutch pump, and all those other goodies are taken care of....I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out WHICH turbo to go with. Traction will be my enemy...i spin 1st through second, and even third if I wanted (haven't tried yet...), but i need something that once I get going will hold true till redline. My t25 looses its umph around high 5-6000 rpm and thats when i need it!!!! I like the suggestions about the evo III big 16g, and that has been the turbo I have been leaning towards this whole time...but i need some comparison. I know that a 50 trim will knock my socks off once it gets going, I'm not a total idiot to this stuff...!!! But with the evo III, I just don't want to get it and then be really disappointed and just have wasted $600 bucks. Some said that the evo III at 10pds will be the equivalent of the t25 at 15pds...thats the stuff i'm looking for. numbers on the dyno, track times, comparisons on track times or the dyno against the evo III and the 14b or the t25. I've done my research enough to know what the turbos are capable of and can do....I need experience suggestions! I'm going to give you guys the rundown: I want to be at 350whp. I'd be really happy with that for now! Then possibly later jump up to 375-400 MAX. Nothing more then that! Like we all agree...its a FWD and anything more then that will be a waste of time and money! I'm just at the point that when i get going...say a street race...low rpms i peddle that bi*** perfectly to little to no wheel spin, and then when i get to mid to high range rpms, I don't feel the pull anymore! I need something that will be responsive at the low rpms but really hold true the whole way through!!!!!!!! Remember 350 hp max for now!!!! And from what my research is telling me...the evo III is the way to go. So anyone out there that can talk from personal experience or knows someone who went through any of this...HELP ME!!!!

 

[dSmgs-T]

i would say the 16g is not going to be your friend. thats a fast hitting turbo, and you will spin through 3rd without a doubt. also with this turbo you will most likely see 300hp MAX with a decent tune, yes i know they support a lot more but the average person sees that number! i can not speak for the 50trim right now because im waiting to get it on STILL but i went with that same pte turbo. i was told by many people that is the better selection for a FWD car. i was even told to look into a gt30, but i wanted to stay with mitsu. housings.

lag is your friend!

 

[rarson]

It would probably be pretty easy to hit around 375 hp at the track with some race gas on the EVOIII. But I agree that the 16g might come on boost too fast. I know my small 16g doesn't spool quite as fast as it used to before I added cams, but it's probably not enough.

Since you're starting with a T-25, you might want to look at some of these bigger turbos. I like the 14b/16g/18g because they're all the same form factor. So I could upgrade to an EVOIII without having to change anything else, which is pretty nice since I am already set up for a 16g. I would say 18g but you'd have to get a kit anyway. And honestly, I don't have much drag experience with FWD. It's pretty easy to drive a 16g AWD and get a decent time, I'll admit.

 

[doggo]

Or how about this turbo:

Forced Performance: DSM 20G-6SL2 Street/Strip Turbocharger

Supposedly spools a little quicker than a normal 20G, but not as fast as a 16G, but with all the top end grunt you could want? Still no graph data from FP on these, but that is what I am hearing about it. I'm looking at one of these for my TSi myself, would love to hear from someone that actually owns one.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

A Slowboy Racing Bastard 20G is another option for you.

Bastard 20G

 

[splatter96]

i just upgraded from a t25 to a super 20g hahns racecraft turbo but i rebuilt my motor you know pistons, rods, etc. if you have any concern with the longevity of your motor the horsepower you looking for you gonna have to lower your compression. even with a great tune im sure you will be ok but for how long is the question and for how many pedal to floor runs. if you trying to just go fast for know with a lot of boost for a short amount of time get a aem wideband apexi afc then hit the dyno unless you testing on the road. hate to see you down the road blow your motor up so later please get pistons and rods eventually

 

[boosted86]

i ran a fwd, e316g and pushed a litttle over 400 whp. dont get me wrong i loved that little turbo fun as hell, but you will not hook. anything over 330whp is usless on a fwd. which is why i got me a gsx. but, yes for the money; the power potential of that turbo is insane. and also to add, i came from a a td05 20g and hated it. that turbo hit to hard to late ( fwd). my .02

 

[nlzn]

I tend to hang out with a lot of rx7 guys around town.

The first time I got them in my car all they could say is wow, that little turbo is violent.
That's exactly what I love about the e316g. The boost curve is downright violent (20lbs). It lessened some when I added 272 cams and a full built head to match though.

Still it's fun as hell, and most of local dsm bethren would agree it's the possibly the best choice for a street turbo, period.