H&R Race lowering springs

[NjzRedGST]

2.0 inch drop in the front, 1.7 in the back, what do you guys think about these ? how is the ride quality ?

 

[PaulPDX]

Asking the wrong question. Shocks and their valving have more to do with ride quality than the springs. If your shocks are valved correctly to match the spring rates of the springs then the car will ride like crap.

Springs keep the car suspended. Shocks control ride. Which is why there are such things as adjustable shocks, but not adjustable springs.

 

[jtmcinder]

H&R supposedly had Koni Sports in mind when they developed their springs. The racing version requires flat-plate upper mounts and that the front shocks be shortened by 1" or 1.5", I can't remember which (while the OE and OE Sport versions can be run with OTS Konis). So, if you want these springs, a good ride, and the handling that they were meant to provide, assume about $700 for the required shocks ... plus a two-month wait because it's racing season.

- Jtoby

 

[NjzRedGST]

So using these springs with the stock shocks would be a bad idea ? or they just won't install at all ? I would think they were a direct bolt-on, i don't want to shell out $250 for a pair of shocks. Springs don't effect ride quality? they do to a point, a buddy of mine cut the stock springs on his GSR and man was that car bouncy when he touched any small bump. Thanks for the help, all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[jtmcinder]

What is your goal? Do you want a car that looks good or do you want a car that handles? Be honest with yourself.

If you want looks, do whatever you want to get the car down to the height that you want. In you want handling, prepare to spend at least $500 on the shocks.

- Jtoby

ps. a 2G on cut stock springs and stock shocks is bouncy because you're hitting the bumpstops, so it is a shocks issue ... the shocks are too long for the height and spring rates

 

[PaulPDX]

So using these springs with the stock shocks would be a bad idea ? or they just won't install at all ? I would think they were a direct bolt-on, i don't want to shell out $250 for a pair of shocks. Springs don't effect ride quality? they do to a point, a buddy of mine cut the stock springs on his GSR and man was that car bouncy when he touched any small bump. Thanks for the help, all advice is greatly appreciated.

Stock shocks with aftermarket springs are always a bad idea = mismatched.

Springs keep the car suspended. Without shocks, the car would float (bounce) like a boat ride in choppy water since there is nothing to slow the rate of compression or rebound of the spring.

If the shock isn't vavled right, and the springs are overpowering the damping capabilities of the shock... the effect is pretty much the same.

Springs suspend, shocks provide control.

 

[NjzRedGST]

What is your goal? Do you want a car that looks good or do you want a car that handles? Be honest with yourself.

If you want looks, do whatever you want to get the car down to the height that you want. In you want handling, prepare to spend at least $500 on the shocks.

- Jtoby

ps. a 2G on cut stock springs and stock shocks is bouncy because you're hitting the bumpstops, so it is a shocks issue ... the shocks are too long for the height and spring rates

I am right in between on that one, I want something that looks good, and eliminates all body-roll possible. Plus I am guessing the stiffer springs will help my FWD launchs just a bit, which is always good. I didn't find out about the drop until after I ordered the springs, 2.0' in the front, 1.7' drop in the back


I will eventually purchase aftermarket shocks and struts, but I am preety broke right now. I would probaly choose Bilstein shocks, they have always been my favorite.

 

[PaulPDX]

You can't really make your choice by brand name along. With 2" drop you really should be looking at shock body length and how well the valving is matched to the springs you have. It's already been mentioned that H&R designed their spring with the Koni Sport in mind. Bilsteins are not adjustable. So it will be close to the right match or completely off. With the Konis, at least there is a range of valving you can choose from to match the springs.

Your best choice for shocks can't be more obvious.

 

[619dsmer]

Tein set up, easy as that.

 

[jtmcinder]

No, it isn't as easy as that.

You live in California, probably in an area that doesn't freeze in the winter. So your roads are relatively smooth, so you can run shocks with large amounts of compression.

But the guy asking the questions is from New Jersey. Not only does that have a pile of disadvantages that have nothing to do with suspesion design (sorry ... couldn't help it), but it also means that he's driving on some pretty crappy surfaces. So he can't run a Japanese-style shock. He wants Konis, instead, which is what Paul was suggesting.

- Jtoby

 

[PaulPDX]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Tein has started making US specific versions of their dampers. Either way, good springs and good shocks can be just as good as a coilover set up. Only main advantage of coilovers is that they allow you to select your ride height and spring rate independantly of one another (which is something most coilover buyer's don't bother with).

With regular springs, you're stuck with whatever the springs are as determined by the manufacturer.

You can always sell the springs you already bought and get the right ones. 2" drop IMHO is too much, not to mention for Jersey. Shouldn't have trouble selling them in the classifides. Plenty of uninformed with the "lower is better" mentality. You'll probably lose some money on it, but hey... it's part of the learning process. We've all done it at one point.

 

[red4G63T]

I got some H&R springs, while the drop is a pain in the ass entering gas stations and the such, the drop really gives the car some looks, and it handles like it is on rails. I think you made a good choice, keep them.

 

[Burrito06]

I have the H&R Race Springs. If you look at my gallery then you will see how they look like on the car.

 

[teme]

i too have currently h&r springs with stock kyb shocks, ride is damn smooth and nice.

but true that it's not the best idea to combine stock shocks with lowering springs.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/teme666/h&r.jpg

 

[PaulPDX]

Lowering springs must have shorter shocks and shocks with the proper vavling.

Drive the race springs w/stock shocks on a very bumpy road or one with a washboard like surface and the reason becomes obvious. Without shorter shocks you are shortening your car's available suspension travel... this means the suspension has less distance to travel before it is forced to hit the bump stops. This forces the chassis to soak up the worst bumps rather than letting the suspension do what every suspension on every car is meant to do. Long term effect is a weakend chassis because you are in effect increasing the number of stress cycles the chassis sees in its life of service.

 

[98spydert]

Only main advantage of coilovers is that they allow you to select your ride height and spring rate independantly of one another (which is something most coilover buyer's don't bother with).

I only wish all coild overs let you adjust the preload on your springs, then you could get away with spending under a thousand dollors for a decent set up. I think the main advantage of a coil over set up, even just the Tein basics ($650), is that the dampers are matched up pretty well to the spring rates and they are usually shortened as well. No need to pay extra for aftermarket struts to be custom made.

 

[BOV]

Last weekend we threw on H & R springs (drop 1.4 rear 1.7 front) along with KYB GR2
struts on all four corners. The ride is 100% improved. The stance is awsome. I would highly recomentd this set-up.

 

[PaulPDX]

Last weekend we threw on H & R springs (drop 1.4 rear 1.7 front) along with KYB GR2
struts on all four corners. The ride is 100% improved. The stance is awsome. I would highly recomentd this set-up.

I wouldn't. Frankly, I don't see how anyone would. GR2s are not shortened. By using them with lowering springs you are effectively reducing the amount of suspension travel the car has, which in a way is reducing the car's capabilities. If you drive on glassy smooth roads you may not know the difference, but not at all recommended for less than perfect roads.

 

[kpt4321]

Paul, for the record, which shocks ARE shortened?

 

[PaulPDX]

Koni Sport (Yellow).

RRE has pictures of all of the shocks sided by side, including stock, on their site. I don't remember exactly where on the site. Use the search and I'm sure you'll find it after a while. Their site is a mess and lots of good info aren't available unless you know the direct path to the files.

This is what their site said about the GR-2:

KYB GR-2 Gas Shocks & Struts


KYB is the O.E.M. for the Eclipse, and these shocks are a great replacement value. These are a little stiffer than stock; definitely not a sports shock.

 

[BOV]

I wouldn't. Frankly, I don't see how anyone would. GR2s are not shortened. By using them with lowering springs you are effectively reducing the amount of suspension travel the car has, which in a way is reducing the car's capabilities. If you drive on glassy smooth roads you may not know the difference, but not at all recommended for less than perfect roads.

Well I don't know what to say. Maybe I just lucked out. This is the third car I've tuned the suspension on with my son. The first DSM car. The ride is excellent and the roads are not glass smooth, especially right after a New England winter. I can't tell folks to do what I do. All I can do is relate my personal experience. Ya have to decide for yourself.

 

[DSMX921]

Koni Sport (Yellow). RRE has pictures of all of the shocks sided by side, including stock, on their site. I don't remember exactly where on the site. Use the search and I'm sure you'll find it after a while. Their site is a mess and lots of good info aren't available unless you know the direct path to the files.

Okay, so you're saying the ONLY shortened shock is the Koni Yellow?? Well if it is so why are people getting good results with other spring/shock combos? is this just luck, or is there some dealer out there selling magical long shocks??

 

[PaulPDX]

Shortened and properly vavled.

Ignorance is bliss.

You drop the car down and not run shortened shocks amounts to reduced travel. Plain and simple.

Take it or leave it. Your car, not mine.

 

['96_Talon_TSi]

Paul, do the Koni reds have the same size shock body as the yellows, or is it similar to the stock size?

I've been paying attention to what you have been saying in most every post, about rates and shock lengths, yet the price of the yellows damn near makes me have a heart attack. I'm aware that the yellows are the best OTSshock out there for a lowered DSM and they will cost a higher price for a higher quality shock, but since the reds are slightly cheaper than the yellows they are more appealing to my budget.

so what do you think about the reds?

 

[PaulPDX]

Gotta pay to play. Save up and do it right the first time. Check shox.com as well.

See for yourself...

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Photo credits go to Road Race Engineering.