Grinding Starter

[mach4g63t]

I've read the other threads, most lead to an unresolved issue where no solution was posted.

Hokay, goes like this... everything was just put together by me. All mods in profile are current. Go to cranking the car up for the initial prime. Starter kicks over fine, cranks smooth; I'm loving life.

So, motor is primed and then I move on to trying to actually fire this fresh beast up. Get a couple sputters, starter still spinning the motor grind free. I kill the boost leaks, make some adjustments to DSMlink and it starts firing up and idles for a bit. Good to go. At this point, I'm at a stopping point and quit for the day.

A few days later, I go back to crank it up and start working out my tune to keep it idling and running right. When I go to crank it, I hear some grinding, the the motor still turns over and sounds healthy and smooth. I check the starter, thinking it might've come lose; nope. As I continue when starting the motor, it becomes worse and worse. I pull the starter, it looks a little worn out. I buy a new one. Put it in, same problem, and it's gradually getting worse. I checked the inspection plate and found that the starter is grinding the teeth. Again, it's tightly bolted down.

Now I'm at a loss, so I pulled my entire transmission (in an hour ) and haven't went back as I ran out of time the other night at my shop.

Can anyone give me some ideas of what I should be looking for as to why my starter is grinding my flywheel? I bought the flywheel used from a friend for 50 bucks. It was a good condition aluminum 6-bolt flywheel which I put a new friction plate on. Ring gear was good to go when I got it. I can't figure out for the life of me why this is happening.

It's the right starter and all, and the only thing that I can think of is it's the stock 1gb transmission that was originally mated to a 93 7-bolt motor. However, since I've put in the 6-bolt almost a year ago, I've NEVER had a problem using this starter. Is it a possibility that when I had my block cleaned and what not he could've put the wrong starter plate on the motor? Would that make a difference?

Any help and information is appreciated. This is a small PITA that is keeping me from finishing a 5 month build.

 

[Tim Melton]

It seems like the flywheel is stripped.You said it was aluminum right also is that a 7 bolt starter you might want one for the 6 bolt.

 

[mach4g63t]

No, it's for a 6-bolt. I actually cross-referenced the number on the starter against the ones that they carry at my local auto parts store and this one is considered and universal starter for these cars. It was the same as the one that I bought with the car on the 7-bolt. That's why it's confusing me. It never grinded when I put it in with the 6-bolt or anything, but not I'm having troubles right when my car is ready for tuning. It's god damn depressing.

Does anyone know if the starter plate would be causing this? The only thing I can think of is that when I put this 6-bolt motor in from the original 7-bolt, I took the starter plate OFF of the 93 7-bolt and used it on this 6-bolt. When I had my block machined, I told the guy it was a 6-bolt... and maybe he put a 6-bolt starter plate on it... does anyone know if that would make a difference? It's the only thing that comes to mind.

Also, the teeth look like they've been hacked at a few times, but they're definitely not trashed yet. Here is a bad reference, since I have no pictures right now....

but let's say this.... ____|____ is the top of one of my teeth, okay? The section on the RIGHT side of the divider in the middle is the only part that's 'grinded' against all the way around on the flywheel. I thinking the starter isn't fully engaging. However, when I checked it, the gear pushed out to the maximum and it was good to go. Does that make any sense?

 

[kwheeler]

Could it be the ring gear on the new flywheel?
Maybe it's not installed all the way on so it appears the starter isn't engaging completely. The problem started when you put the new flywheel on, right?

kwheeler

 

[mach4g63t]

Yea, but it's a Fidanza, and I don't believe you can pull the ring gear off it. Does anyone know if the starter plate would be the cause of this? I think that's what I've narrowed it down to.

 

[awd2gsx82]

i would say its the plate! my friend had this problem, so he made the starter plate hole bigger and there was no more problem! try that, i think it will take care of the grinding.

 

[mach4g63t]

Yea, I'll be checking this in a few hours when I get off work to rule it out or not. I'll post back if I find a solution.

Got my clutch and all that trash out. Only number on the flywheel was D064023. Fidanza was closed when I called. Can anyone tell me if this is the flywheel number for an AWD or a FWD 6-bolt?

There are some other numbers on the back of the flywheel I didn't notice last night. They're etched into it by hand; MIT4-6302

not sure what those mean. I will be checking with Fidanza today.

 

[luv2rallye]

FWD and AWD have slightly different size flywheels: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ing-game-wrong-size-flywheel-parts-store.html post 8.

 

[mach4g63t]

Turns out this was all due to the aluminum Fidanza flywheel. It's simply too soft, I guess. The starter plate played no role, as when I bolted up a ACT flywheel the grinding wasn't an inssue. Problem solved. Now I just have to finish putting it all back together.

 

[PickleRick]

It seems like the flywheel is stripped.You said it was aluminum right also is that a 7 bolt starter you might want one for the 6 bolt.

Sorry I may be asking a question that has been answered above, a bit noobish.

So as far as the grinding with a 6 bolt swap, what starter should I use to avoid the grinding?

 

[mach4g63t]

I'm still using a 6-bolt style starter. I believe the 'real' 7-bolt style starters (or at least the differences) never kicked in until 95, as 1gb 93 and 94's still came with 7-bolt motors on 1g trannies. That was my original setup. 7/4, swapped to a 6/4 combo in a '93. All I did was remove the starter plate for clearance issues and peace of mind and I'm going to use the more stout ACT flywheel instead of the aluminum Fidanza.

Hope that helps. Also, just so you know, it seems that the starters from 91-94 all came from most autoparts stores as a 'universal' model, which is what leads me to believe that the starters didn't change until '95, if at all.

 

[Defiant]

No, it's for a 6-bolt. I actually cross-referenced the number on the starter against the ones that they carry at my local auto parts store and this one is considered and universal starter for these cars.

Well, there's some trouble.
Just for future reference, both aluminum and iron flyweels have steel gear rings shrunk onto them. The teeth aren't aluminum, nor is the friction surface.
Did you compare the flywheels when you had them together? Sounds like you just had the wrong one, or the wrong starter.
Is that flywheel actually marked "Fidanza" on it? Those numbers don't reference from their site.

 

[mach4g63t]

No, I wasn't able to reference the numbers with Fidanza and pretty much gave up on the flywheel. It was a 100 bucks (including the new friction surface I bought, which was for a fidanza flywheel from extremepsi) but I haven ot compared the two together. I took the ACT, bolted it to the crank and pushed up my tranny to use the starter and it came out good to go.

I don't recall any Fidanza markings on it, but from the looks of the ring gear, it was pretty easily chewed up. I tried both the new starter I got from the auto parts store and the one I bought with the car (assuming original OEM from how old it looks) and it came out good with the ACT and very harsh and destructive sounding on the "Fidanza". Are there companies who make knock off Fidanza flywheels? I got it from a buddy. Also, does anyone know whether or not it's possible to 'warp' a flywheel? I've had a few people tell me it might be a possibility from all of the numerous tire-peeling launches it endured.

--Edit--

I'll try looking at them side-by-side later. I still have to get the ACT one resurfaced.

 

[DSM_Zak]

Thats odd, It can't be the difference in the 7-bolt to 6-bolt flywheels as it wouldnt boltup obviously, the only thing I'm seeing is a slighty different flywheel for another car? The ACT one is correct, obviously if its working, I don't know if I overlooked it or not but did you change out the starters? If not it has to be a different flywheel, unless someonce resurfaced it to all hell and its not seating properly, WTF

Goodluck, let us know what you come up with!

 

[PickleRick]

So as far as starters,
anything that was better fit for a 6 bolt motor with the swap would stop the grinding?
Or if I were to pull one from a 1g go with a 89-92?