Got "worked" by previous owner...just found out

[g96nt]

$300 for a valve-job!?
sweet jesus!!!


if you're replacing valves, you should be Able to do seals @ the same time, no?

damn I'm glad We have a local that does head re-builds For $150
baking, planing, new seals, etc....$150!!!!

 

[GRNDSM]

Yes, Fish spoiled us around here with his $80 basic valve job. Everyone else pays $200-$300 for the same thing!

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by NosLaser
...Of course others will disagree, but they are wrong

Robert Young
Forced Performance...

There's a statement that your God made. I made the same statement in this thread being sarcastic, and got flamed by you Tev.

Here's your response to said statement by your God:


...quote:

Originally posted by forcedperf
Of course others will disagree, but they are wrong



Bwahahah. ...


Now, why is my blanket statement condescending/grounds for flaming while his is grounds for a 'brwahahaha'? Could it be....that you like him? Just a hunch...

Oh this is just getting sad:

1) Show me where I 'flamed' you in this thread for making that comment. Give me a post number because I can't seem to find it. **** I don't even remember you posting it. In other words, show me that you just didn't try to put words in my mouth. You of ALL people should know from experience that I have been very sedate towards you. Go back and read only my posts.
2) Yes 'Bwahahaha' because it was funny. Maybe you should go back and read the thread it came from. What's next? You going to quote me from another board, much less another thread, to make another irrelevant point?
3) Let's stick to topic shall we? I have already posted my opinion and what I use. I hope dsmtrance has enough info to make an informed choice

 

[dsmtrance]

Back to the questions at hand.....

What is the best "bang-for-the-buck" mod...SS valves OR dual springs/titanium retainers??? I ask because it's looking like I MAY have to choose one or the other.

What have all of you found to be the BEST way/method to clean the block off (this sucker was really torqued on there last time!)? And is it going to be necessary to remove the ARP studs to clean the block?

 

[g96nt]

you can use a gasket-scraper To get the gasket off.... it's hard to get it *ALL* off.. not many people Do....

and removing The studs should be easy...since they're hand-tight....*RIGHT*?

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by dsmtrance
Back to the questions at hand

What is the best "bang-for-the-buck" mod...SS valves OR dual springs/titanium retainers??? I ask because it's looking like I MAY have to choose one or the other.

What have all of you found to be the BEST way/method to clean the block off (this sucker was really torqued on there last time!)? And is it going to be necessary to remove the ARP studs to clean the block?

I used a razor blade on mine.. cleaned it up nicely.. and no one or other.. get BOTH

 

[GRNDSM]

>What is the best "bang-for-the-buck" mod...SS valves OR dual >springs/titanium retainers??? I ask because it's looking like I MAY have >to choose one or the other.

Crower single springs with titanium retainers for $250 is the best bang for the buck on high revving engines. I have them on my race head, which is not in the car at this time.

But keep this in mind, I just spend 4 years racing my car with 8k rpms rev. limiter with out any problem. And hit that sucker everytime I AutoXed.

I am now taking the same STOCK valve train with HKS 264 cams up to 8400 rpms with out any problems... So stock parts are not all that bad...

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by dsmtrance

Now I have another question for you guys. What is the best "bang-for-the-buck" mod...SS valves OR dual springs/titanium retainers???

Well IMHO neither. I've heard a few horror stories about people getting SS valves where the stem diameters were off, or they tapered, etc... You HAVE to have your machinist check every stem and valve guide to make sure they will have the proper clearance. If you have a micrometer you could check the stems yourself, but you'll need your machinist to check the guides.
Yes your seats will have to be re-ground for the new valves. What turbotrix means is that you will not have to completely replace the seats, which is expensive.
Now back to the point. Unless you have port work I don't see oversized valves making a large power increase. I think you could gain more just by cleaning the casting in the valve bowels, having a 3 or 5 angle valve job done, and lapping the stock valves. Go down to napa and look for clover compound to lap the valves/seats. It's very easy to do and will get you the best seal possible.

 

[NosLaser]

...Noslaser, I like your sig. Unfortunately for you if ignorance was painful you would be bed ridden....

That's cute. Like me or dislike me, you definately can't associate me with ignorance or stupidity. But nice try sport.

Tev,

You're right. I think I was assuming a bit too much. You never did flame me in this thread, or really in any recent ones at all. I guess I nitpicked a particular part which I again, assumed to be the part you were referring to when you said I made a 'blanket statement.' (others could disagree, but they'd be wrong.)

For the flamers (hehe) my reputation is very solid where it matters; to those who know me in person, and on the forums with a more mature crowd. Your little stabs (such as yours HiPsi) are doing nothing more than showing your own immaturity. If you have a problem with me, be a man and handle it with me one on one. The part that is sad, is jumping on a forum for a bash NosLaser fest that consists of only people who have bashed me in the past...kind of like a circle jerk, or mental masturbation if you would. HiPsi, if you have a problem with me, CONFRONT ME. Take it up with ME. If you do nothing more than post childish BS on some internet forum, then I'll do no more than assume you are an immature child who is whining on a forum because you don't have the blls to take it up with the source. Just my $.02...again, I could be assuming too much again.

Regards,

 

[dsmtrance]

Alright, everyone get settled down now? Let's keep our "personal" disagreements with each other apart from this. Disagreeing and saying why you think something is or is not a good idea is relavant when it pertains to the thread. But the personal "jabs" need to be one-on-one (I agree with Noslaser on this one...you got a problem, take it up with that individual). Let's all try to get back on topic now.

If a vlv job WILL be necessary then I will probably just get the dual spring/tit. retainer set. But which is the best way to go? If I do not get the vlvs I can afford to get the Web spring/tit. retainer kit ($415). Or is the Crower kit just as good for me (since it is a good deal cheaper at $250...still haven't found where to pick that kit up at yet though. Who sells it??). I was going to have the vlvs lapped if needed, but I was told that the vlvs looked GREAT and were seating just fine by the head shop and they said the pressure test was good too. So is the 3 angle vlv job and vlv lapping even needed? I am taking in some new vlv stem seals next week for them to put in, along with whatever spring/retainer kit I go with. But then that will probably be it. I'm not really "planning" on reving the motor over 8k once this is all said and done. All I know is that before I pulled the head the car would pull like crazy to about 7200 rpm and then would just completely "run out of steam". It was very irritating! Never did figure that one out. Oh well. Keep the info coming guys.....

 

[GRNDSM]

>since it is a good deal cheaper at $250...still haven't found where to >pick that kit up at yet though. Who sells it??

You can get it from Crower or Summit. But I found that Buschur Racing usually stocks them while the other guys udually don't.

 

[dsmtrance]

Is the Crower spring/ret. kit just as good as any other? It's not a DUAL spring, right? Just a 15% stiffer spring. Good enough for 8K rpm shifts with the Webs? I'm just looking for some added safety/security with the Webs going in

 

[NosLaser]

I personally favor the web kit, however if you are only looking to make moderate power, and will rarely rev past 8k rpm, the Crower kit should do just fine. Case in point on my car, I had the stock valvetrain, but I never went above the factory rev limiter. RPM is what kills things at moderate HP levels. What you are watching out for is valve float at high rpm, which stiffer springs are designed to cure. You can even shim the factory spring for more tension and get similar results, but it's always better to go with a new spring set that is designed for just that function. How much HP are you looking to make, and just how high do you want to rev? I'll give you a realistic and to the best of my knowledge, correct answer to your question.

Regards,

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by NosLaser
How much HP are you looking to make, and just how high do you want to rev?

I think that's a good question to ask. Are you looking to just to be able to get it to pull hard to 7500 or do you want to hit and pull through 8k on a regular basis or are you looking for 9k+?

 

[dsmtrance]

Well, I have a TMO Stage III chip w/ an 8500 rpm rev limiter. Honestly, if the stock valves can handle that kind of reving then I would "like" to take advantage of it. Will the Web spring/tit. retainer kit make that possible...and SAFE? Because like I said before, for some reason the car would pull like mad to right at about 7200rpm and then would just basically completely stop pulling anymore. Wasn't like fuel cut at all, it just would NOT pull anymore?!?! Hmmmmm. Seemed odd to me. My 97 GS-T would rev to and bounce off the 7500rpm rev limiter all day long!

I am looking to take FULL advantage of my 20G setup before I go bigger. I am even thinking of adding a 50 shot wet kit in the "somewhat" near future (need money, money, money). BUT, I want to make sure the engine can handle it (if I add nitrous I'm worrying about still having stock valves...should I be??). My goal is mid-low 11's with this turbo. Around 500 crank HP.

Real quick, is the consensus that I do or do not need to remove my ARP studs to clean the block??

 

[dsmtrance]

Do stock retainers "look" NOTICEABLY different than stock ones (are they flat, diff. color, etc)?? I can't find a pic of the stockers but mine look a LOT like the ones in this picture.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[dsmtrance]

I meant do they (the stockers) look diff. than the titanium retainers (duh). That is a pic of the Web kit.

 

[GRNDSM]

>You can even shim the factory spring for more tension and get similar results

This is not recommended if you are using higher lift cams. You can come dangerously close to bottoming out the coils…

I would recommend Crower springs over Web. Not only are they much cheaper, Web had a history of spring going bad. They might have fixed it by now, but why pay extra $200 and then risk it?

Crower spring retainers look identical to stock. But if you pick them up, the difference is AMAZING! And you can them apart by holding just one (of each) retainer!

 

[dsmtrance]

So this is the kit I should get?

http://crower.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?prod_id=84175

Will these do well for what I want? Are they strong enough? $251.xx sure is a good deal too!

 

[NosLaser]

To each his own... Whichever way you go, good luck. The Crowers will prolly work in your case. I've shimmed factory springs on numerous occasions with good results, but every car is different, and there are always freak happenings.

Regards,

 

[dsmtrance]

Alright, looks like we're going with the Crower spring/tit. retainer kit and just keeping the stock valves. Hopefully they will be able to take all the abuse! 9.0:1 pistons, web cams, and 24-26psi at the track have got me worried about that. . We'll see I guess. I have a ****LOAD of stuff going on the car besides what's getting done to the head (wheels, new FMIC, shocks, springs). And I can't wait to get it all done and down off jackstands! haha. Thanks for your help with all this guys. Later.