The Central Hub for DSM Community and Information

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. This is where the DSM platform history is documented and archived. Log in to help us in our mission, and to remove most ads from the browsing experience.

Got "worked" by previous owner...just found out

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

I don't know why I'm bothering but here is my input on metal headgaskets.

I purchased an HKS metal gasket 3 or so years ago before the Mitsu metal ones became available. I mainly decided to go to it because it was reusable and well it was just one less thing to worry about. I had my head machined flat because it suffered an overheat but the block was untouched 90k old stocker.

The car went [email protected] on a 20g with it in there, no issues. Then I put a FP Red on the car, drove it 620 miles to Ohio for the Shootout, threw it straight onto the dyno off the street at Buschurs shop and laid down 470whp first pull with stock bottom end including balance shafts, drove it 620 miles back home. Then I went to the local 1/4 track and ran 11.1@130. It never lost one ounce of coolant.

Since then I have built the bottom end and reused the gasket. I used copper spray when I reused it but not originally. It has 1000 miles on the new motor with gasket reused so far with a lot of abuse tuning on race gas. No coolant loss.

I took it to the local 1/8th track to see what it would do on pump gas & 20 psi just for kicks last weekend. [email protected] without any prep to the car, I just turned off the A/C and ran it nice and easy.

Point being the HKS metal gasket works. I know plenty of guys using them. Never had any issues. Perhaps people having issues are not torquing the head properly or with enough torque. I go pretty damn tight on mine.

I installed one with my friend Victor (world's fastest galant) on his car and he reused it probably 6 times. He also drove 600 miles to the shootout and back and ran a 11.4@119 while he was there. No coolant loss.

But why listen to me? I only did all that with one. Aslan KNOWS otherwise.

Do I think the metal gasket is needed in any but extreme applications? No. Stick with a stocker, they work fine.

Greg
 
Originally posted by NosLaser
To those saying they've used a metal head gasket without having the block decked, and saying they have had no problems, I say it doesn't count when you are only making 200 horsepower!!!

Uh Aslan everyone who posted having no problems with sealing runs mid to low 11s. They're not making 200hp.

I do agree you should have the head decked before putting in a metal HG. Actually if you don't I see no point in putting in a metal gasket. It's just going to lower your compression. The fire ring on the composite HG seals great if used with ARP hardware.
If your head warped and it has been shaved then use a metal head gasket to make up for that.

I used a mitsu metal hg on my 6 bolt after I overheated and warped my head. I just cleaned the block throughly and used copper spray and had no problems.
As with anything off the factory assembly line there are productin tolerances. Maybe your block was not ground completely true at the factory?
 
...But why listen to me? I only did all that with one. Aslan KNOWS otherwise. ...

You come over here just to take a stab at me? That's classy :rolleyes:
Every car I've seen with that metal head gasket (the mitsu 4 layer) has had cylinder head lifting problems. Sure, some cars may hold up, but then again, monkeys may fly out of your ass. Why chance it? My advice is go with a stock gasket and save yourself the headache.

Regards,
 
I'm not turning this into DSMTalk. You guys want to argue with me for the sake of arguing, then I'll be the bigger man/***** and just back down. I have no need for this aggravation or B.S. over some stupid internet forum.
 
Why would a particular head gasket lead to head lifting problems? Wouldn't that have more to do with the fasteners that are used, and the torque they are tightened to?

Just wondering.
 
Originally posted by NosLaser
I'm not turning this into DSMTalk. You guys want to argue with me for the sake of arguing, then I'll be the bigger man/***** and just back down. I have no need for this aggravation or B.S. over some stupid internet forum.

They are 'arguing with you' because you have made a blanket statement. They believe that statement is wrong. They posted their opinions and experiences. If you can't defend you position on its merits, that's no reason to go blaming them.
 
I did defend my position several times in this thread. But let's see here..we have Nick Drake, Greg, and you in this thread. The 3 people that like me the most. So, I see where this is going. My statement about having 200hp was obviously sarcasm...but, because it's me, and because it's Nick, it's used as a tool to argue with me. EVERY car I've seen that didn't have the block and head decked has had the same problems. But, Strand (Greg) and Nick, and you are the internet popularity queens so regardless of how much experience or knowledge I may or may not have, the internet is a popularity contest. Right now, the popular opinion is held by 3 people who hate me and want to 'eat my children.' ;) Therefore, instead of pissing back and forth, I'll let whoever listens to you guys learn on their own. That's all.

**Edit: 4 people. Shape doesn't like me very much either. ;) **

Regards,
 
Aslan,

I do not care how much you know or how helpful you can be, but the condescending, know-it-all tone of your posts which is full of absolute statements will generate flames by its very nature. So it is not even the content or what you are trying to say, but rather the manor in which you present it… You might want to re-think your posting strategy, unless you are looking for some on-line flame fests.

Sorry guys, I am way off topic now
 
Originally posted by NosLaser
I did defend my position several times in this thread. But let's see here..we have Nick Drake, Greg, and you in this thread. The 3 people that like me the most. So, I see where this is going. My statement about having 200hp was obviously sarcasm...but, because it's me, and because it's Nick, it's used as a tool to argue with me. EVERY car I've seen that didn't have the block and head decked has had the same problems. But, Strand (Greg) and Nick, and you are the internet popularity queens so regardless of how much experience or knowledge I may or may not have, the internet is a popularity contest. Right now, the popular opinion is held by 3 people who hate me and want to 'eat my children.' ;) Therefore, instead of pissing back and forth, I'll let whoever listens to you guys learn on their own. That's all.

**Edit: 4 people. Shape doesn't like me very much either. ;) **

Regards,

When you are right, I have said so. When you are wrong, I have said so. I don't sugar coat sh1t. All this 'You all are ganging up on me' crap is childish and getting old fast.

Discuss your thoughts, which you have, let others reply, which they have, and let the reader decide the voracity of the statements at hand. You want to make blanket statements, be ready to have strong opinions on both sides.

Back to topic: The stocker is a good quality HG. It will hold easily to moderate abuse. If you plan on beating the piss out of the car, then IMHO the OEM Metal is a better choice. I have the metal on both my 96 and my daily driver almost stock 92.
 
I forgot that I need to use my sugar coater whenever speaking to a DSM'er. If I come across as an as$hole, it's because I am. I have no problem admitting that. But by that same token, when people ask for advice, I give them the RIGHT advice. When people challenge that just for the sake of challenging it, then it pisses me off. I've learned something in life. If you are outnumbered, your opinion doesn't matter. If you have brown hair, but the rest of the world says you have green hair, then by-damnit in society's standard, you have green hair. If yo didn't kill someone, but everyone else says you did, then YOU DID. See the them developing here? I'm argumentative by nature, and when I know something to be right, I have a hard time becomming a sheep and following the crowd, which is the ONLY reason I get into arguments on these boards. Nick is an as$hole, and he's condescending. Tevenor is an as$shole and he's condescending. I'm an as$hole, and I'm condescending. (Do I need to pull up posts to prove my statements about both of these guys?) BUT, I'm outnumbered. That's it, and nothing more.

Regards,
 
Don't worry Aslan, I'm going to stay away from this board. I wasn't aware I was launching a personal attack on you by stating my experiences with metal headgaskets.

I added the little bit about you knowing otherwise because you seemed so damn certain that they will not work. Every top DSM is using one except for Buschur since he says the gaskets leak too. Shepherd does prefer the Mitsu metal ones but has never tried an HKS. Ofcourse some people do have the block surfaced but it is not needed from what I've seen on several cars.

Back into my hole I go.

Greg
 
...Of course others will disagree, but they are wrong

Robert Young
Forced Performance...

There's a statement that your God made. I made the same statement in this thread being sarcastic, and got flamed by you Tev.

Here's your response to said statement by your God:


...quote:

Originally posted by forcedperf
Of course others will disagree, but they are wrong



Bwahahah. ...


Now, why is my blanket statement condescending/grounds for flaming while his is grounds for a 'brwahahaha'? Could it be....that you like him? Just a hunch...


And Strand, just because your view of the majority of DSM'ers is that they are idiots who won't catch your little stabs doesn't mean I don't. And impressing the Mutt people with my talk?? Is that like you impressing the Forced Performance people with your talk? Enjoy your hole.

Regards,
 
I have, I just don't feel the need to clutter the message boards with timeslips. There's a link in this thread (to the supra forum) to someone who knows me and has seen what my car has run (and I'll give you a hint, it's DAMN near your 1/4 mph based on a guess from your 1/8th mph.) My car was built to run the highway street races and make money, not to impress 16 year olds on message boards, so I guess you've got me there...

Regards,
 
I erased the post not wanting to argue further. My best 1/8th mph is 102.5, the 95.5 I quoted was on pump gas with my stereo etc crap still in. I tried that link but the board was down or something, why not just post the time/mph? That would be less clutter than a link. I may follow in your footsteps with some juice on my car someday.

You always say you don't want to impress people on messageboards.. yet that seems to be your full time job :)

Greg
 
No problem. The car ran 129 through the raps with the 660's, NOS 120 octane leaded race gas, small 16g ported (no clip) and the 80 shot dry. When it went 12.80 at 118, it had a smaller shot, the stock cams, smaller injectors, and less timing. If you do decide to go down the darkside, nitrous would work VERY well with the Red.

Regards,
 
>>> I say it doesn't count when you are only making 200 horsepower!!!

Mmm, last time I checked Leon had run a best 0f 11.3@122 with his " little " BR 20G. Now that he has moved on to a bigger turbo I expect him to see the 10 second mark. NOSlaser, what was your best * TRACK * time again ??


Mike Rizzotti
11.65@120
 
That comment was sarcasm. Sorry you didn't get it. Look up. My car had good mph, but never ET'ed. It's FWD, and I built it to street race on the highway, not run at the track. Sorry to disappoint you.

Regards,
 
In case the link didn't work for you, here are some clips from said link:

...I knew of a certain DSM that would walk about 85% of the supra's on here. The car trapped 129 wth an 80 shot on it and had the car not been burnt to the ground in a accident at a performance shop would have went mid 130's on a 125 shot with all the other goodies. This guy was a good friend of mine, and he use to go to car shows looking to race sport bikes on the highway for fun.

I never underestimated those cars after taking a ride in his that night and the witnessing him walk a 10's second viper, as i tried to follow in my mid 11 second brick.

Shoebox...


...Would this happen to be a red laser? There is a guy I see over at Corvetteforum who's DSM was burned down at a shop.

tegger...

...hah, I figured the DSM that someone said could beat 85% of the supra's around them was NOSlaser. I see him at corvetteforum. The guys around there seem to respect him, so I believe his laser had over 500 hp. Heh, they are very touchy when ricers show up. Even more so than this board, so you can believe his previous DSM was respectable....

...For those who ask me, this was the car i was refering to in my previous post. And trust me, this car was no joke.

Aslan: Did you buy the firehawk yet?? Haven't seen you around lately.

Alex...
 
Hope everyone doesn't mind me getting back on topic here...

I also use an HKS gasket, and have never had any issues with it. I put mine on my new motor back in 1999 (rebuilt crankwalk motor *** see note at bottom about that***). The motor has 16,500 miles since. I drove it 12 hours packed with my wife and no extra room full of stuff to the shootout. I won the 2G class last year with a 12.5 @ 111, then ran a 12.3 @ 112 later at the test n tune. I drove it home with the AC on the whole time and never had any problems. Last semptember I ran an 11.8 @ 119.7 and backed up both the ET and the MPH.

I have reused the headgasket twice now, on my old motor the first runaround, and now. I have overheated and never blown by any coolant. When I installed it I used the copper spray, both times. It works, and works well.

You can go to my website and see my timeslip. I would really love to see one where you trapped 128 with a 16G noslaser.

***Note:
Also, my crankwalked block was line bored back in 99. So that's no new news (like someone was running around telling everyone). Still no crankwalk, on a crankwalked 7 bolt, 2 piece bearing block.
 
Originally posted by NosLaser
My statement about having 200hp was obviously sarcasm...but, because it's me, and because it's Nick, it's used as a tool to argue with me. EVERY car I've seen that didn't have the block and head decked has had the same problems. But, Strand (Greg) and Nick, and you are the internet popularity queens so regardless of how much experience or knowledge I may or may not have, the internet is a popularity contest.

I know it's sarcasm and what point you were trying to get across. The increased cylinder pressures when making more HP will cause problems. I pointed out that most of these people who had good experiences were making very good power.
Unless you really meant that a metal head gasket will always blow out, if that's what you meant then I was arguing with you.

I haven't seen those problems personally. Yes I have seen two metal HG blow out. Both of them were more of a user error than a parts problem (one had only used two torque steps, 40 and 80 lbs. the other used motor oil, but torqued 80 like ARP recomends with moly. neither re-torqued after heat cycling). I'm not flaming you, I'm just posting what I have seen.

I don't think I'm really that "popular" at all. People might know my name, but it's not like I'm getting eight million emails from people asking me questions. Probably because no matter how much I actually know, it doesn't mean **** if I have no proof. I have no time slips. I am a bench racer. Give me a month and a half and then I might actually be credible.
 
Now, everyone has stated that they don't want this to turn into a DSMTalk thread...so let's not. Everyone has been putting out some really good info for the most part so let's just get back to the topic at hand. :) No more flame wars.
Now I have another question for you guys. What is the best "bang-for-the-buck" mod...SS valves OR dual springs/titanium retainers??? I ask because it's looking like I'll have to choose one or the other. :( On a good note, the head shop called today and said that EVERYTHING on the head checked out 100%. No leaks on the pressure test, valves look great and are seating just fine, surface is FLAT, etc.
Lastly, what have all of you found to be the BEST way/method to clean the block off (this sucker was really torqued on there last time!)? And is it going to be necessary to remove the ARP studs to clean the block? Just looking to do this the best possible way. Thanks again for all your responses so far.
 
Wanted to say one more thing.....
the reason I said I needed to "choose" one or the other was b/c the head shop said I would almost HAVE to have a valve job done to put in the SS valves. Is this true??? I ask b/c I saw this quote on Turbotrix's site..."Stronger, lighter, and swirl polished for better flow. All 3 sizes can be used with the stock valve seats, springs, and retainers ". Now is that saying that I don't need a valve job to use the SS valves? Or am I missing something here? The problem I ran into was the fact that it was going to be ANOTHER $300 for a valve job :( Hadn't taken that into consideration. So what's the consensus on this one? If a valve job is not necessary then I more than like will have enough for both the SS valves and the springs/retainers (that would be NICE!).
 
Add Value - Be Respectful - No Trolling - No Misinformation - Participate Often!
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community

Build Thread Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top