gain from 16g over t25

[word2wombat]

how big of a difference will i get out of swapping out my t-25 to the 16g??

 

[nightspeed87]

Id say at least a 100 wheel hp difference between the two according to what ive read here http://www.vfaq.net/DSM/mods/10faq.html and the 16g holds full boost much longer than the t25.

 

[tylermartindc]

if someone were to, for example; swap out the t25 for the e316g,on their 2g, and keep everything else the same... would there be any gains?
whats the limit of how much boost you can run?
anyone have any experience doing this swap?

 

[GVR4592]

If you have all of the supporting modifications it would be a significant change. If you don't then you won't notice a thing except for slower spool.

 

[nightspeed87]

youd need bigger injectors anyways and since the 16g likes to creep without external anyways then yea itd be a big gain because youd be running bigger boost on a turbo that flows twice as much...

 

[DSMunknown]

how big of a difference will i get out of swapping out my t-25 to the 16g??

Sorry, but bench racing is not allowed on these forums. Go to your local dyno facility and test out your application. No one can tell you exactly how much performance improvement you will see with certain parts/bolt-ons/whatever.

 

[gsxtacy]

Like everyone above said.....

If the "said car" was stock and the T25 was replaced with a 16g, the gains would not even be noticeable, and what would be noticeable would be how much longer it takes to come up on boost.

A full 3" exhaust and hard intake piping are the most beneficial mods a turbo car can have, performance wise..

 

[GVR4592]

I wouldn't consider it bench racing, he just wants to know if the swap is worthwhile.

 

[GVR4592]

youd need bigger injectors anyways and since the 16g likes to creep without external anyways then yea itd be a big gain because youd be running bigger boost on a turbo that flows twice as much...

They don't creep if they are ported correctly.

 

[DSMunknown]

I wouldn't consider it bench racing, he just wants to know if the swap is worthwhile.

Almost anything other than the T-25 is an upgrade. Everyone knows this.

 

[IslandTSI]

If you have all of the supporting modifications it would be a significant change. If you don't then you won't notice a thing except for slower spool.

I dont really believe that. If you had absolutely nothing else done at all maybe. But a minimal bolt on car you will at the very least hold more boost to redline.

 

[GVR4592]

I dont really believe that. If you had absolutely nothing else done at all maybe. But a minimal bolt on car you will at the very least hold more boost to redline.

I said if there were no modifications other than the turbo it wouldn't make a difference. Which is exactly what you said in your reply. So you don't believe me, but you agree with me, you seem pretty confused.

Holding boost to redline is irrelevant at stock boost levels, which is what we are discussing.

The guy has an intake, 1g bov, intercooler pipes, and a mbc, none of which allow him to increase the boost level safely.

 

[IslandTSI]

I said if there were no modifications other than the turbo it wouldn't make a difference. Which is exactly what you said in your reply. So you don't believe me, but you agree with me, you seem pretty confused.

Holding boost to redline is irrelevant at stock boost levels, which is what we are discussing.

The guy has an intake, 1g bov, intercooler pipes, and a mbc, none of which allow him to increase the boost level safely.

Even just installing the turbo will more than likely end up changing the amount of boost he is running. And even with those mods he can safely run 15psi on the stock turbo, maybe a little less on a 16g.

And how would not being able to hold boost to redline at any level be irrelevant? Puke and die syndrome is never good.

 

[GVR4592]

Even just installing the turbo will more than likely end up changing the amount of boost he is running. And even with those mods he can safely run 15psi on the stock turbo, maybe a little less on a 16g.

And how would not being able to hold boost to redline at any level be irrelevant? Puke and die syndrome is never good.

I said at stock levels holding boost to redline is irrelevant, because both turbo's can do that without a problem.

As for a safe boost level with his modifications, it's impossible to know without a datalogger. We aren't even going to discuss that one, because you don't have enough knowledge and experience to make a fair argument

 

[IslandTSI]

I said at stock levels holding boost to redline is irrelevant, because both turbo's can do that without a problem.

As for a safe boost level with his modifications, it's impossible to know without a datalogger. We aren't even going to discuss that one, because you don't have enough knowledge and experience to make a fair argument

Do you honestly think that my post count on here has anything to do with my knowledge of these cars or boosted cars in general? Or are you just being condescending to try and show off?

 

[GVR4592]

Do you honestly think that my post count on here has anything to do with my knowledge of these cars or boosted cars in general? Or are you just being condescending to try and show off?

Neither, I'm reading your statements and basing my decision on the fact that you don't seem to know what you're talking about. If you want to twist people's words and argue points that don't exist try it with somebody else.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Shouldn't the 16G flow more at the same psi? WOuldn't that yield more power? I know it wouldn't be an amazing bump in output, but you would think 12psi on a 16g would put down a little more than 12psi on a T25.

 

[GVR4592]

Shouldn't the 16G flow more at the same psi? WOuldn't that yield more power? I know it wouldn't be an amazing bump in output, but you would think 12psi on a 16g would put down a little more than 12psi on a T25.

No the only difference would be intake temps. The turbo doesn't provide the airflow it only compresses what the engine is taking in.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Huh, it seems I've been under a false impression for a long time. So when turbos are rated for a certain CFM that is solely based on psi? I'm sure I've seen numbers that show large turbos making more power than smaller ones at the same psi. Like SBR's testing. Surely that can't be just based on intake temps.

 

[ILLiCliPSE]

i swapped from a t25 to a t28 and felt an amazing difference. the 16g slows a little more than a t28, but its comparable...the difference will be worth it. it pulls all the way to redline, and the car now actually feels like it has some balls. and yes this is directly from a t25 to a t28, with no fuel mods and relatevley the same psi.

 

[JayRolla]

Like night and day!!

 

[GVR4592]

Huh, it seems I've been under a false impression for a long time. So when turbos are rated for a certain CFM that is solely based on psi? I'm sure I've seen numbers that show large turbos making more power than smaller ones at the same psi. Like SBR's testing. Surely that can't be just based on intake temps.

That's a good question and there are a lot of variables that can affect overall power output but I'll try to keep it simple and leave out anything not pertaining to this discussion.

The 2.0 engine at 100% VE can ingest 2 liters of air, once you reach that point power is pretty much capped. In some cases an engine can exceed 100% VE but that doesn't really matter in this case. To increase the power level you would need to increase the density of that air, density is determined by pressure and temperature. If you were to upgrade from the T25 to an EVO 3 16g, and for the sake of discussion lets say the boost level was 12 psi on both, where is the additional power going to come from? Air volume is the same, air pressure is the same, there is only one variable that's been changed. Temperature.

Hope that helps

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Clear enough. That was always my intuition, but some things seemed to suggest otherwise. Sometime I'd like to read up on the heavy details (I know some about turbo efficiency ranges, etc... not totally lacking), but this thread is probably not a great place to get into it.

I suppose the above discussion is relevant to stock or near stock levels as they are in a comfortable efficiency range for both turbos which means little difference in temperature.

I do have one question though that I think is relevant to the discussion. I was thinking an intercooler would negate temperature issues, but I then realised that most boost controllers are run immediately off the turbo outlet. So does that mean a smaller turbo which may be less efficient will be running the same psi, but lower density (IE - heat) and thus yield less power? Or does it not matter since it is set off a gauge reading manifold pressure post intercooler? (this assuming no heatsoak, boost leaks, etc...)

If I'm off topic or thread jacking let me know.

 

[spinz4]

Yes you will feel a little upgrading on a totally stock car you will be flowing more air or (cfm). Its not gonna send you to the moon or anything but you will see gains. Then after you get a couple more mods you will REALLY see some gains.

As for the pissing match about intake temps......How many cars can you count that are 10's and faster without any intercooler??

Stick on topic and research before you post. Oh and no it will not be a 100 hp gain without supporting mods. Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

 

[GVR4592]

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.