Full out Le Mans style...

[blight]

Ok this is the plan as of to date in a 92' awd turbo laser.

1. muffler shop to mandrel bend you a custom exhaust ($300) from the turbo back. Make sure the bends are not crush or press-bent, because they will narrow and impede exhaust flow.
(300)
2.
2.$200 fmic core with the $80 in piping for a fmic setup (Ebay)
(350)

3. Hallman evo pro series manual boost controller (thanks to Dynoflash.com)
(165)

4. 780cc injectors (FullThrottleSpeed.com)
(84.99)

5. walboro 255 LPH fuel pump (ebay)
(90)

6. KN Filter (buschur)
(45)

7. ACT 2100 clutch (buschur)
(340)

8. Ported 2G exhaust manifold (buschur)
(275)

9. Tunerstein logging software With PDA and Wires
($65)

10. port stock turbo
(???)

11. replace rearend with 94' rear end
(???)
---------$1,649.99

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Now that you all know what is going down here are the questions.
This car is going to be set up for le mans style racing at the lowest class (in other words it just needs to pull 12.4s and handle like hell) What suspension mods in your experice will I need to do to do this.

To the list above- am I missing something or adding something I do not need?

As for the following parts what vendor do you recomend and what brand (if there is one) do you recomend I get from you experiences?

1. AFPR: Adjustable fuel pressure regulator (btw is this the same as a fuel controller if not what fuel controller should i get)

2. S-AFC: Super airflow controller

3. MAF- mass air flow senser (do i even need this?)

4. Turbo timer

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please no BS just need some quick help here.

 

[Mackzero]

First of all, I would not go too cheap with the intercooler there.
Second, I would spend the $$ and get DSMLink to tune the car.
Third, what turbo are you going to use?? The stock turbo is NOT going to get you to 12.4s easy, especially if your car is tuned as a "race car".

 

[David15151]

yep those injectors are way overkill for a 14b . Going to be real fun to tune with a S-AFC too. Also the price on those injectors.. thats for each one so take that and times 4.

 

[David15151]

my question is why are you going to the cheap route when trying to make a race car.

 

[blight]

where does one get "dsm link" and what does it do better?

also what about 660cc injectors then?

stock turbo but ported... you think i should replace that turbo? I have been told that that turbo will hold me till 11.9s so I think I should be ok. Or do you have other reasoning? And what about the rest of the questions?

To why "cheap"... well- what is the point in going expensive when the less expensive part can do the exact same thing and just as good? Please - I know you are trying to help and I know from experience the "cheap" route is not always the best- but the more I find about these dsms they are not as touchy as once thought.

Oops I almost forgot what BOV do think I should use? I really don't care about sound just performance? Just stock or replace it? Also future ref. I know a guy working at a shop who can get me whole sale prices on these parts so it might not end up costing this much. Plus shops get a major discount. Though his shop he got a 8900 crate motor from chevy for 5300 that is a major step down there.

 

[blight]

Also forgot this - this not JUST a race car it is going to be for daily that is the main point of the fuel controller. I have a buddy pulling 12.6s geting 34 on the hiway with premium because of his.

 

[crazyboost]

"3. MAF- mass air flow senser (do i even need this?)"


You already have a stock MAF on your car, and yes you do need it unless you get a vpc or go stand alone. You might want to upgrade it cuz you will enventually over run it. If your just going with an safc get a 2g mas or go with GM blowthrough setup.

And if I were you, I'd research a lot more before going out and spending a lot of money. You're gonna end up regretting buying some of that stuff, so research and learn more about your car so you don't have to buy stuff twice.

 

[leet]

Le Mans? You're going to need a great deal of downforce.

Tunerstein won't cut it. At the very LEAST you'll need a DSMLink.

Are you serious about Le Mans racing a DSM?

 

[DiabloRT]

AWD = 2600 clutch.......don't be a wimp

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

The stock turbo will not hold you off till 11.9's. Not even close.

People have run awesome times on a 14b but you said this is a daily also.
DSMlink is very new for 1g's www.dsmlink.com


You have to make a choice.

1. You are making a race care
2. You are making a daily

You can't have a 34mpg daily driver that you can race.

Also one question.

What type of Lemans racing are you talking about? link please.

 

[Lof8]

It sounds to me like you're quite a ways off from building a "full out LeMans" car. Do you mean that you're going to be doing some road course driving with it? If I were you, I'd bring the car to the track just like it is and do some laps. Then decide where the major weaknesses are. Some coilovers and sway bars will be more beneficial than, say, 780cc injectors on a stock-turbo'd road car. If you don't even know what dsmlink is, you've got a lot of reading to do before buying your list of parts. My advice is don't buy anything on your list yet. Read lots and upgrade slowly (one piece at a time). Modding these cars is rarely as easy as bolting on a new piece. New problems always arise. good luck.

 

[blight]

In northern MN there is a couple of le mans style races up there (like the oh so famous "Gran turismo" this is what i mean by le mans).

I knew about dsmlink from automotive forums. no one told me where to get it though.

Which parts as one of you said- will i regret getting then?

Can you guys be a little mroe clear on what you all mean?

Yes - btw i am serious about le mans racing a dsm awd. I prefer awd but i love that style of racing. I figured I would have to mess with downforce alot but I though I could cover that once I knew how it ran with the suspension and power mods.

Thanks for the heads up on most of this.

-------------------------
I have been doing lots and lots of research. I know it can be done and cheap at that. I just don't loaded answers on this. Could you either point me in the right direction or give me real answers.

Thanks for any info I will be getting and already have here just for future reference to those that are actually helping.

 

[David15151]

its amazing how many people on the boards have no idea where to get DSMlink because I think it could possibly be the confusing website address. www.dsmlink.com

 

[herostar]

I think you're refering to auto cross, not lemans.

780's are too big. period. go 660's and dsmlink with a 16g type turbo.

 

[Toshiro]

I doubt he's talking about autocross, because all those mods would put him well above the "lowest class" of autocross.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

What safety equipment is required?

I would go with 660's and evoIII 16g, that will give you bigger power but still have good spool-up and boost response to have quick acceleration out of the turns.

Suspension will be the hardest part, putting the go fast parts on will be simpler.

 

[PaleDSM]

LeMans racing is endurance racing not regular road racing. Even if you are talking reg. road racing you shouldn't be so concerned with power. Cooling and suspension are what you should be researching. And tires. Deal with getting a stock car to run reliably before you try to make more power. Stick to the basic turbo back and intake at stock boost. Your stock bov is fine. Stock injectors at stock boost will be fine. DSMLink may be useful if you want to pull some timing out while running for a long amount of time.

 

[97GS-TSpyder]

why odnt people use the things luda provides
http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/
there follow like everyone else cheap bastard...

 

[polarmoment]

In northern MN there is a couple of le mans style races up there (like the oh so famous "Gran turismo" this is what i mean by le mans).

really? where at? might be worth the drive up.

if you plan to do any road racing, the first thing you should buy is "drive to win" by carroll smith. all the mods in the world won't do you a bit of good if you don't know how to extract the most from them. you're not gonna learn race driving from a book, but it'll point you in the direction you need to go and give you some insight into what you need to improve.

as for car stuff, i'm with the suspension guys. depending on the track, better suspension will often net you faster lap times than more power, not to mention making it easier to acheive consistent times. one balls out lap from tons of power doesn't do you any good if you toss it in the kitty litter the next time 'round.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

LeMans racing is endurance racing not regular road racing. Even if you are talking reg. road racing you shouldn't be so concerned with power. Cooling and suspension are what you should be researching. And tires. Deal with getting a stock car to run reliably before you try to make more power. Stick to the basic turbo back and intake at stock boost. Your stock bov is fine. Stock injectors at stock boost will be fine. DSMLink may be useful if you want to pull some timing out while running for a long amount of time.

Agreed.

That's what I was trying to say but couldn't quite word the post right

 

[blight]

Ok - I know this already toward the suspension.

Oh and its up in the branered area. These are smaller races yet still hardcore from my understanding- why don't you gave me a call at 763-213-1305 so we can talk more about it. I plan on using QPR in st. paul off of front for the shop work that i cannot do. And i have a buddy at a body shop who can get all these parts for nearly free. My email is [email protected] also. The real name is Luke if you call.

The way I have been told how to do this is that as long as the car can take 90' turns well at a slide, and it can actually turn at high speeds (about 145mph or so) I should be fine for handling. The power DOES matter it is those long straits that i will need to worry about because if I have to take the turns only slightly slower but kill on the strait aways I should be fine.

So 660s then I'll buy that dsmlink as well - the first poeple who mentioned this said that (since money does not matter buy that but if it does get the tunerstein) what is your opionions on this? Do you recomend the full package on this then (595) or the basic modle?

I have been to that link "http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/" It does not help much other than to give a product range no costomer ratings or anything that is what I am really lookin for here.

Tires matter an assload here yes indeed I have been talking with a few people about that. I think I am going to go with a mid range tire between soft and hard. Seeing that this car is awd the tire spin is not going to be too bad so I don't have to worry AS MUCH about tires. The races are two hour races nothing like 24. Cooling is not going to be a HUG issue for me I am going to have vents all over the place.

To the autocross coment- well le mans racing is basically a mix of that and drag racing nothing to it really. So if i can get it to perform decently in both then I can do at the lowest level of le mans style - see.
------------------------
If there are parts up there that I do not need or want or I am missing something would one of you at least be more clear please about what the heck it is that I am missing here- this is getting a little loaded and unclear for me to catch all of the comments at once. Thanks.
-----------------------
To the "cheap bastard" thing come on now what is point of pointless badgering I am here for help not critisim...ok. So I would apreciate that we just stay on th main topic.

 

[blight]

Oh and also when editing the list just make referece to the numbers so that way one does not get confused and does not have to go through the entire thing.

Also I alomost forgot to mention would you all buy from these vendors?

To making a "full out le mans car" I am not REALLY going full out just base level is all when more money comes in then i can eventually change the class.

Why use a dsm? Well i like how much potential they have. and I like that is awd. If i could afford something like a r33 I would get that instead but seeing that I can't....screw it.

Actually to the r33 thing I am working with some people to lower the 25 year rule to 15 like canada so one can buy the car ship it america for a lot less then motorex is selling them. that means I can get an 89' r32 in 05' and so on. just depends on if we can change the law. Maybe you guys are interested in this or not jus thought i would mention it.

 

[polarmoment]

Ok - I know this already toward the suspension.

Oh and its up in the brainerd area. These are smaller races yet still hardcore from my understanding- why don't you gave me a call at 763-213-1305 so we can talk more about it. I plan on using QPR in st. paul off of front for the shop work that i cannot do. And i have a buddy at a body shop who can get all these parts for nearly free. My email is [email protected] also. The real name is Luke if you call.

cool. i'll get in touch with you for more info, i'd love to bring my MR2 up for a day. i heard BIR is up for sale. any word on price?

The way I have been told how to do this is that as long as the car can take 90' turns well at a slide, and it can actually turn at high speeds (about 145mph or so) I should be fine for handling.

unfortunately, that's not quite correct. don't ever let anyone tell you that sliding a car in a road race is fast. you want a balance of low and high speed handling, for sure. the way the touring cars do this is with big rear anti-roll bars. this loosens the car up to rotate well through low speed corners. it makes the car somewhat unstable at high speed though- that's why those FWD cars have rear wings. the wing creates downforce, but more importantly it creates drag and essentially drags the rear of the car behind the front of the car through the corner. it's more a stability issue than grip. then it's a matter of balancing drag to HP for top end speed.

The power DOES matter it is those long straits that i will need to worry about because if I have to take the turns only slightly slower but kill on the strait aways I should be fine.

yeah, power matters. but i think you underestimate the importance of corner exit speed- expecially on a track like BIR. this is where driving technique comes in as well. if you can exit the corner 5mph faster than the other guy and your cars are of similar acceleration capabilities, that's 5mph you'll carry the entire length of the next straight and possibly create a passing opportunity at the end of it. it also allows you more control over where you position the car for the corner when you do go to pass.

F1 and GTP are both pretty convincing evidence that handling makes more of a difference than power. look at the F1 benetton B194 ford. grossly underpowered compared to the williams FW16 renault of it's day, but micheal schumacher knew how to drive it and won the driver's title. in fact, he managed to finish 2nd in the 94 spanish grand prix with a car that was stuck in 5th gear for 3/4 of the race. no acceleration, no top end speed, just handling ability. he eventually got his lap times within 2 seconds of damon hill's winning williams- which still had all 6 gears left.

look too at the chevy intrepid (IMSA GTP circa 1992): running with cars like the jag XJR-10/12 (lemans winner), porsche 962C (lemans winner) and nissan NPTI-91b (4 time IMSA champ). those cars were all capable of 1000HP+ in qualifying trim, yet the 800HP intrepid took several poles over the course of the season. the intrepid team clocked their cars at 35MPH slower down the straights at road america than the jags, porsches and nissans, yet they were running identical lap times because the car handled so well and made tons (literally) of downforce.

look at williams BMW the past couple years- tauted to have by far the most powerful engine in F1, yet have managed only a handful of wins compared to mclaren and ferrari.

what i'm saying is that unless you have GOBS more power than the other guys, it won't make up for deficiencies in your suspension.

Tires matter an assload here yes indeed I have been talking with a few people about that. I think I am going to go with a mid range tire between soft and hard. Seeing that this car is awd the tire spin is not going to be too bad so I don't have to worry AS MUCH about tires. The races are two hour races nothing like 24. Cooling is not going to be a HUG issue for me I am going to have vents all over the place.

hoosiers if you can afford them. victoracers if you can't. you're right though, something too soft might overheat/grain/chunk.

i would also focus on weight reduction. it's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[blight]

I have no idea what the bir price is...sorry

I agree with you entirely but again I think i mentioned on here that this is also a road car so I am not planning on making this any where near a "beast" of any sort. I would say between 12.4s and 12.8s would do me nicely. It does need to handle well enough true... but does that other guy know how to down shift or even punch it all also they will be driving rear wheel drive more than likly if they accelerate too hard their car will spin out this car will not. It has 40% on the front tires from my understanding. This is why I think sliding is just fine for this kind of car. - there is not much to the slide.

I would not recomend your mr2 they don't usually do well in this becuase they have a tendency to over steer. So if you do I would harden up those front shocks first.

----------
Still no answer though what else is wrong with this list. Just the turbo, injectors, and logging system?

Still no definate answer to the suspension question either.

 

[David15151]

how about a AFPR and a SBR manifold in place of the ported 2g manifold.