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1G Fuel system advice

Posted by Kdubya88, Nov 3, 2019

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  1. Kdubya88

    Kdubya88 Probationary Member

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    My end goal is to have a Curt Brown full ported manifold and head on a 2.3l. Mostly on 93, the only e85 station is 20 miles away, but want to build for it anyway. To always have plenty of fuel system left to push a HX40 or FP Black to full potential what fuel system reccomendations could you guys make? FIC1200 OR FIC 1650'S? Assuming stock lines will not flow enough... Teflon lined rubber or Aluminum hardline? -6/-6 feed/return or -8/-6 feed/return?
    I was thinking a single in tank rewired Walbro 450 but have no clue how far that will go. If I go that route could I add a inline pump in the future to relieve the strain of the in tank and get it to full base pressure flow no matter the boost level? Any advice is appreciated.
     

    Street Build 93  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  2. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    You should always have more injector than you need. I'd go with 16s, heck if you wanna go hx40 and just throw fuel at at, maybe try 2000s.
    Sure if u get a heck of a deal on a set of 12s then maybe try those until you run out of injector, but if it was me, I'd at least get 16s.
     

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  3. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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  4. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    And you always want to go bigger
     

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  5. Kdubya88

    Kdubya88 Probationary Member

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    Thanks for the replies. It will be a few months before I order injectors. I'm still stripping the car down. Fuel tank is out of the car and underside is bare. Any opinions on running a Walbro 450 with -6/-6 feed and return in aluminum hardline? It seems like the easiest and cleanest way to go but there is a lot of conflicting information regarding aluminum hardline and e85.
     

    Street Build 93  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. Bleakley

    Bleakley Proven Member

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    Aluminum is a HARD no.
    Stainless steel is recommended.
    If not running braided lines the whole way, to avoid improper lengths for your setup(s):
    -Use ~2.0ft from tank
    -use ~2.0-2.5ft from line to fuel filter
    -use ~3.0-3.5ft from regulator if mounted on driver’s side
    -use ~2.0ft from line to tank
    Or just do it in the cheap and use the fuel hose rated for higher fuel pressures from advance or Autozone.
    Run nicopp, steel, or stainless steel hardline to bring it all together. Stainless is recommended, obviously.

    It’s spendy, but making it modular like this allows you to change sh** around or add an inline pump. Others have other advice.

    What I recommend for FP Black on the E:
    -8 feed/-6 return. -6 feed will work though.
    Walbro 450 struggles to crack 650-700whp.
    Run a 525, then add inline IF needed.
    FIC 1650’s or ID1700’s
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019

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  7. Kdubya88

    Kdubya88 Probationary Member

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    Thanks for your input. I don't think I have it in me to bend and flare stainless steel or steel hardline. So I'm thinking Vibrant SS ptfe -8 feed -6 return. The 525lph is only $40 more than the 450, so why not. I'm going to get the Fuelab 40micron SS and I have a Aeromotive FPR fitted for -6 already and FIC fuel rail that I can adapt for -8. I'll worry about the injectors later.
    My new question is on the bulkhead fittings. I'm clear on the feed side but for the return should I cut off and drill out the stock location for the bulkhead?
     

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  8. Bleakley

    Bleakley Proven Member

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    That’s why I recommend running the braided like that. It gets you to unibody rail. Straight shot from there for the most part —> cut length to suit...
    Stock return is 1/4” or mm counterpart.

    I would. Make sure to extend it down though like stock to 1) keep pump fed as best as possible and 2) prevent aeration.
     

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  9. 90tsiawd

    90tsiawd Proven Member

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    On 93 pump gas a single 450 and factory fuel lines will be fine on a FP black which I would recommend over a HX anything. But if you are wanting to change out your lines then go -8 feed and factory or -6 return. I love the FIC 1650 but you wont need more than the FIC 1200 high z injectors. I do highly recommend high z on pump gas. If you will use e85 my recommendations will change.
     
  10. Bleakley

    Bleakley Proven Member

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    @90tsiawd
    To my knowledge, 5/16” line proved maxing @ 550whp as shown in Supra’s.
    Walbro 450 has proven maxing out ~650whp mark
    FIC1200’s will not support ALL of an FP Black (FP states turbo flows 71lb/min) on E85.
     

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  11. 90tsiawd

    90tsiawd Proven Member

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    You are not going to max out a black on pump gas.
    Stock fuel lines, 450 fuel pump and FIC 1200`s will support 500awhp on e85. They will support much more on pump gas. This isn't racing on paper these are actually supported numbers in real life.
    On e85 he will need twin DW300 pumps or possibly a 525 and 1650`s and I would upgrade the feed to -8.
     
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  12. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    I say go 2150s. I’m hitting over 80% duty cycle on my red/dsm76 with 1650s. Grab yourself a walbro 525 and stick with the stock lines unless you have upgrade.
     

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  13. 90tsiawd

    90tsiawd Proven Member

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    2150`s are old cng injectors. I would stick with 1650`s on a black as its enough injector to max that turbo out and its a far superior injector design.
     
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  14. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    I imagine you’d have to crank up the fuel pressure and run the 1650s to the edge if you wanted to truly max the black out. Of course, most people’s “max” of the fp black is different from Tom’s.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  15. 90tsiawd

    90tsiawd Proven Member

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    Base pressure on mine was 50psi.
     
  16. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Was your record run on 2150s or 1650s? Have you noticed any difference between the two? Just sold my 1650s today and bought a new set of 2150s so you’re making me nervous.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  17. 90tsiawd

    90tsiawd Proven Member

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    1650`s
    just make sure you don't run any type of oxygenated fuel threw the 2150`s. And if you have to take them out and set in open air after having run e85 threw them expect them to become locked up and in need of cleaning. The 2150`s are not a bad injector at all they just aren't as good as the 1650`s.
     
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  18. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    That is exactly why I bought the 1650’s over the 2150’s, I also saw well over 80% with them on the dsm82, however I’m on stock lines, and I’ll upgrade lines and add an inline Bosch o44 before I sell them. I paid good money for those damn things LOL, I’d rather buy a second set before I buy 2150’s
     

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  19. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Keep in mind that he was likely not using e85 with those 1650s. Other fuels will get you a lot farther.
     

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    1cleangsx likes this.
  20. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    That’s true, if your motivated enough to pickle your fuel system from time to time I know lots of people love the 2150’s, can’t argue with going bigger, I just didn’t want the hassle. But hear I am upgrading turbos and the fuel system will no doubt follow suit. I’d say to the op if your gonna run a black or bolt on hx 40, either 1650’s or 2150’s will be plenty
     

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