Fuel Injectors

[murcielago]

Hello.

I have a 98 Eclipse GSt

I Would like to know if Precision Turbo 580cc or 680cc would be good enough for a Big T28.. BUT i want them to be good enought for a 16G i will be putting on later on..

Will these injectors work with my Factory 2GB Fuel Rail? i wil be putting Walbro's 255LHP Fuel pump with re-wiring kit, and a AFPR on my fuel rail. also -6AN FUEL FILTER TO RAIL KIT...

I just need to know if the brand (Precision Turbo) is good, if 580cc injectors will be good enough or should i use 680cc now since i will still upgrade to a Big 16G from a Big T28.


Thank You Guys for the help.

 

[99 gst spyder]

pt680cc should be good. you'll need something to tune it. afc or link. 16g and t28 are around the same flow.

 

[snowborder714]

Depends on what you plan on tuning with.

If an SAFC, the 680's will be on the limit of what it can control, and you might not be able to get it dialed in perfectly.

If CeddyMod/ECMlink, go as big as you can afford.

 

[murcielago]

ok Thank you..

Now, I'm not planning on going crazy with this project, all i want is something to support the 16G ill be putting later in couple of months, right now ill be running a Big t28 and i know with 580cc is good for that turbo, but i don't want to have to buy bigger injectors to support the 16G later, so i just want to get something that will be good for both..

Which tuning or Fuel controller do you guys think it would be good enough to tune 680cc injectors..

 

[snowborder714]

For the price and control, I'd look into CeddyMod since you already have the flashable ECU.

 

[murcielago]

For the price and control, I'd look into CeddyMod since you already have the flashable ECU.

flashable ECU? i did not flash it or anything, everything is stock with ECU..

 

[snowborder714]

The '98/'99 ECU can be reflashed - I wasn't saying you had flashed anything yet

Here's more info.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...first-flashed-dsm-ecu-98-99-flashing-faq.html

 

[murcielago]

what are the Stock Fuel Injectors size? 480cc? i'm not sure.

 

[Bud92gsx]

450cc..

 

[Absit]

Wait, why is it you think a 16G is an upgrade to a Big T28?

 

[murcielago]

450cc..

Thanks..

Wait, why is it you think a 16G is an upgrade to a Big T28?

Because overall it can take higher boost yes the lag is a bit different, which make the EVO Big 16G starts at aroun 3800(correct me if im wrong), and the T28 is around 3300. but the evo Big 16G is supposedely better in mid to high range rpm.

again correct me if im wrong. tell me what you may think about this Absit.

Thank You

 

[murcielago]

Hello Guys.

So im bringing this thread back.

I Have decided to upgrade my fuel system a bit, new fuel injectors, new fuel rail, an AFPR, and something to tune it with, thats not DSM Link or any ECU tuning device, im not to good on money right now for DSM Link..

I have a '98 Eclispse GST. Bone stock>upgrading now so.... But just put a Big T28, FP Manifold, Hard piping, SMIC(Oversized) custom made by Spearco(TurboNetics)...

For fuel system i was thinking the following parts:
Fuel Injectors: PTE FUEL INJECTORS 525cc, 550cc or 580cc
Fuel Rail: AEM HIGH VOLUME FUEL RAIL (Will Put a Fuel Pressure Gauge on Rail)
AFPR: FUELAB MINI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
Others: ~PTE FUEL INJECTOR SEAL KIT
~-6AN FUEL FEED LINE KIT (FILTER TO RAIL)
Done already: Walbro 255hp, Re-Wiring & OEM Fuel Filter

Now for Controlling is where im stock. I of course need one, so i want to do this right and get a decent one good brand nothing crazy, just something to control fuel, nothing extra. *which mean more money* so i just want something simple to control.. Please Help me out on this.

Also on the injectors what do you guys think i should choose from all 3, my goal is 20-22psi of boost during track and sometimes weekends to push it a bit, and 17(Adjustable actuator minimum) during daily driving.. I also don't want to max out the MAF at boost so if you have any comments on that let me know.

If you guys have any other ideas on this setup please let me know. i really appreciate it as im learning.

Thank You..

 

[Armandotech]

Injectors I would with the 680cc that you said previousley, for tuning since you have a 98 model I would just reflash the ecu as it will allow you to have full control over the ecu and it's the most cost effective way as well and fuel rail I would leave the stock one since the AEM is not much better than the oem one unlike other aftermarket rails plus for your setup and plans with the car you don't really need to upgrade it.

 

[keltalon]

Hello.

I have a 98 Eclipse GSt

I Would like to know if Precision Turbo 580cc or 680cc would be good enough for a Big T28.. BUT i want them to be good enought for a 16G i will be putting on later on..

Will these injectors work with my Factory 2GB Fuel Rail? i wil be putting Walbro's 255LHP Fuel pump with re-wiring kit, and a AFPR on my fuel rail. also -6AN FUEL FILTER TO RAIL KIT...

I just need to know if the brand (Precision Turbo) is good, if 580cc injectors will be good enough or should i use 680cc now since i will still upgrade to a Big 16G from a Big T28.


Thank You Guys for the help.

yeah 680 would be injectors of choice if i was in your position these would be ideal for a big 16g

 

[hypergenesis]

yeah 680 would be injectors of choice if i was in your position these would be ideal for a big 16g

You think 850cc injectors would be too much for a MHI16g?

 

[Calan]

You think 850cc injectors would be too much for a MHI16g?

It's not a matter of the injectors being too big for any given turbo; it's whether or not you have the tuning device or software to control them.

 

[Absit]

Because overall it can take higher boost yes the lag is a bit different, which make the EVO Big 16G starts at aroun 3800(correct me if im wrong), and the T28 is around 3300. but the evo Big 16G is supposedely better in mid to high range rpm.

If you go from a FP Big T28 to an Evo 3 16G you may see an additional 50CFM. It's simply not an upgrade, it's a sideways step.

I Have decided to upgrade my fuel system a bit, new fuel injectors, new fuel rail, an AFPR, and something to tune it with, thats not DSM Link or any ECU tuning device, im not to good on money right now for DSM Link..

You'll find the flashing route MUCH cheaper and it'll let you use any size injectors you want rather than being limited to 600s.

For fuel system i was thinking the following parts:
Fuel Injectors: PTE FUEL INJECTORS 525cc, 550cc or 580cc
Fuel Rail: AEM HIGH VOLUME FUEL RAIL (Will Put a Fuel Pressure Gauge on Rail)
AFPR: FUELAB MINI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
Others: ~PTE FUEL INJECTOR SEAL KIT
~-6AN FUEL FEED LINE KIT (FILTER TO RAIL)
Done already: Walbro 255hp, Re-Wiring & OEM Fuel Filter

If you go the flashing route, you'll want to buy larger injectors just because you can get bigger ones for the same money and not have to upgrade twice. If you go the SAFC route, you'll want to stay no larger than 600s.
You don't need a fuel rail, you won't need one unless you're going over 600WHP.

Now for Controlling is where im stock. I of course need one, so i want to do this right and get a decent one good brand nothing crazy, just something to control fuel, nothing extra. *which mean more money* so i just want something simple to control.. Please Help me out on this.

Flashable ECU..

Also on the injectors what do you guys think i should choose from all 3, my goal is 20-22psi of boost during track and sometimes weekends to push it a bit, and 17(Adjustable actuator minimum) during daily driving.. I also don't want to max out the MAF at boost so if you have any comments on that let me know.

First, don't shoot for a certain boost level, shoot for a horsepower or time goal. You won't max out your MAF with a Big T28, the 2G MAF has seen 500 WHP.

 

[murcielago]

ok. cool guys, i've read all the reply's now..

so 680cc Injectors is teh deal since yes i can get them for same price, and i will be able to use them on my 16G late ron..

Absit: going from a Big T28 to a 16G is just a side step? i have read many post on how well a 16G like higher boost then a T28, and that it is also better at mid to high range RPMs..

Fuel rail is not needed but since im getting it for cheap *new* i think ill go with it just to complete the look wise of the engine i guess

ok Controlling my fuel with Flahsable ECU sounds good and not expensive.
~ I'll have to look into that and read up real good on it since i've never done anything with ECU's.

With My T28 im looking to get 350hp if possible (this is maxing it out i believe).. ~just to put that in there~



Thank You guys for the quick replays, this has open my options up..

 

[Maverick4g63]

If your going the flash route I suggest reading this entire youtube playlist. Its geared towards the evo platform but the methods are the same. I promise you will learn a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=13C9F1BF5C03E946&hd=1

 

[JwpRider]

ok Controlling my fuel with Flahsable ECU sounds good and not expensive.
~ I'll have to look into that and read up real good on it since i've never done anything with ECU's.

As many of the previous replies have noted, you have several options for Fuel Control (Link, EvoScan/Flash, SAFC, CeddyMod, etc) You mention you never done anything with ECU's before. This is where I would suggest caution on your selection. DSMLink is expensive because it does most everything, is easy to use, and has great support. EvoScan/Flash is less expensive, somewhat complicated for a 'new-be', and still need to buy the interface cable EvoScan 1.3U Universal USB Datalogging and Reflashing Cable for $137, and has support. The caution is when reflashing the ECU, you can screw up things, making your car not function. (not saying you will, just that it can happen). Here is the link to EvoFlash..take a look, if it looks overwhelming, it probably is.

ECU Reprogramming

The SAFC does have its limitations (not for injectors over 650-680..opinions differ), only does one thing (tricks your ECU's reading of the airflow, thus controlling your fuel delivery). Many links exist for more info. However, it is not software, (no laptops, software, drivers) can be easily disabled/adjusted, and no risk of 'killing' your ECU. (Many "How-to's" are available for setup and install.)

I am not advocating one over another, and agree that Flashing is your best overall solution. But if you are not comfy with computers, software installation, fuel mapping, etc, I would go with the SAFC. (There was a SAFC on classifieds for $170 shipped.) At least until you get more experenced...

Fuel rail is not needed but since im getting it for cheap *new* i think ill go with it just to complete the look wise of the engine i guess

What ever $ this is costing you could be put towards your fuel control solution. Either the SAFC or EvoScan (software/cable/shiipping) will be about $175-$200. Like you say...not needed...

Finally, when 'tuning' you need to consider getting a Wideband to read your air/fuel ratio. (It is an O2 sensor/gauge that goes into your exhaust). Again, searching is your friend.

...Just my two cents...

 

[slow8033]

If you do decide to go the Ecuflash route and flash your ECU, Be sure to get the 2.0 openport cable and NOT the cheaper 1.3. A 1.3 cable cannot flash our ECU. As long as your battery in your car is good and strong and well charged during flashing, you shouldn't have any problems with Bricking your ECU.

http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?op...pl&product_id=17&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53

 

[Absit]

I'm going to go ahead and throw this out there, you can hit 350 WHP on an FP Big T28.

 

[TurBoneRed]

My Denso 660s are holding strong using a ported E316G at 22 psi, 680 will fit your set up just fine. Look into Ostrich 2.0, it is a chip emulator and costs $175 shipped, then download a free tuning software called tunerpro, this will allow you to tune in your injectors at a fraction of what dsmlink costs. You can also download some $20.00 software called Jackal that does everything dsmlink does.

Obviously DSMLINK is proven software, I have nothing bad so say about it but there are alternatives that work as good as Link.

 

[murcielago]

As many of the previous replies have noted, you have several options for Fuel Control (Link, EvoScan/Flash, SAFC, CeddyMod, etc) You mention you never done anything with ECU's before. This is where I would suggest caution on your selection. DSMLink is expensive because it does most everything, is easy to use, and has great support. EvoScan/Flash is less expensive, somewhat complicated for a 'new-be', and still need to buy the interface cable EvoScan 1.3U Universal USB Datalogging and Reflashing Cable for $137, and has support. The caution is when reflashing the ECU, you can screw up things, making your car not function. (not saying you will, just that it can happen). Here is the link to EvoFlash..take a look, if it looks overwhelming, it probably is.

ECU Reprogramming

The SAFC does have its limitations (not for injectors over 650-680..opinions differ), only does one thing (tricks your ECU's reading of the airflow, thus controlling your fuel delivery). Many links exist for more info. However, it is not software, (no laptops, software, drivers) can be easily disabled/adjusted, and no risk of 'killing' your ECU. (Many "How-to's" are available for setup and install.)

I am not advocating one over another, and agree that Flashing is your best overall solution. But if you are not comfy with computers, software installation, fuel mapping, etc, I would go with the SAFC. (There was a SAFC on classifieds for $170 shipped.) At least until you get more experenced...




What ever $ this is costing you could be put towards your fuel control solution. Either the SAFC or EvoScan (software/cable/shiipping) will be about $175-$200. Like you say...not needed...

Finally, when 'tuning' you need to consider getting a Wideband to read your air/fuel ratio. (It is an O2 sensor/gauge that goes into your exhaust). Again, searching is your friend.

...Just my two cents...

Dude... This is amazing writ e up here, for Fuel rail out of my list going to put that money towards an SAFC, and most likely going with either evo 9-550cc or PTE-580cc not sure yet..

Wideband got mine allready, i have my gauges (A/F wideband AEM, Boost, Oil Pressure)...

But i love the idea of SAFC so i will go with that, any Brand recommend from you guys would be good. im trying to stick to AEM, Greddy or Aeromotive.

Now for AFPR do you guys recommend me getting it? i though that no matter how big the injectors were the stock regulator will still let me get 43psi because the stock one is set to that. or is this not true? and i do need an AFPR?

i am a new-be on computers with cars and all so i do prefer SAFC 100% since nothing else will be modify for a very long time..

Thank You for all the replys... now ahead to read..



Now with SAFC Im i splicing into computer, or how does this connect to my car?

 

[slow8033]

You have to splice it into the wiring harness. Most people do it under the dash before the wires clip into the ECU.

http://members.cox.net/precisionimage/precisionimage/SAFC.htm

If your set on SAFC, that link will clear it all up. It was done to a GS, but It will give you an Idea how it works, and how to tune with it.