FP3065 with 2.3L, tuning?

[LamarTSi]

Hi guys!

I was expecting to buy a FP3052 but a guy said to me that this turbo will be a little too small for my goal since i'll hit the max boost efficiency very easily on race gas with my 2.3L.

When saying that I think he is damn right... I don't wanna be limited by the turbo like we can be limited by 14B or 16G.

I prefer a killer turbo that match better the 2.3L, like when using a 20G on 2.0L, I mean not many people reached the max boost of the 20G.

So that's why I'm considering the FP3065, I want to stay in the FP30 serie since them turbos are perfect bolt-on manifold and wastegate. (so no Red turbo or any Garrett flanged).

But I need your opinion about this setup please Cause I have NO IDEA if this gonna be tunable and streetable. It always can be streetable so the real question is more about tuning?

Will I need a standalone (that I really DONT want) or it will be tunable like a 20G is, on a 2.0L ?

Here is my actual setup:

2.3L
750cc
-06an full line tank->rail
aeromotive afpr
walbro 255hp
maf translator 2.08

Do you think it will be okay? a 11s low local member said to me his 680cc was at 82% duty cycle with Red Turbo and 2.3L

This is going to give me a headache since I can't find any information on new stroker setup and log for tuning comparison. 2.0L can't really be compared... If yes, please tell me how

Thanks for helping me
Kevin

 

[candela]

Are you asking how hard it will be to tune?
With that kind of turbo/fuel settup/motor i woudl assume you are going for lots of power... in which case a translater and afc wont cut it man. Consider an AEM EMS-- you would be surprised how used friendly they are and how much you will learn abotu everythign after some times with it.

 

[LamarTSi]

Yes, how hard it will be to tune, or how easy...

I really can't afford a AEM EMS

Next, I'm spending my money on the tranny to handle this new addition of power since my old setup was made for a 20G.

 

[dsmturboawd]

if you cant afford a ems, then theres no way youre gonna do a 2.3 and 65. keep dreaming man.

 

[candela]

Yes, how hard it will be to tune, or how easy...

Ill tell you right now... tuning a MASC and afc are easy. Gettgin good driveability out of them, making gobbs of power with big injectors on the stock ECU is hard.

Next, I'm spending my money on the tranny to handle this new addition of power since my old setup was made for a 20G.

The difference in a stock settup to yours is what? Maybe you should throw that money to make the most of yoru settup first and take it easy on the launches for a while till you can afford it. This is just my opinion friend, take it how you will. But once you hit the dyno and see your A/F curve and you are trying to get lots from the stock ECU (that turbo is VERY capable BTW ) and an afc you will kick yourself in the nutts when you see the incosistencies, changes, compensations and quite simpyl crappy power curve the car makes...

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
if you cant afford a ems, then theres no way youre gonna do a 2.3 and 65. keep dreaming man.

Don't be rough man, if i'm asking, it's because I need answer...

I keep seeing guys using turbos like GT30R on 2.0L and 2.3L without standalone, only with maf-t, s-afc...

I don't know if I'm right but tuning a 2.3 looks like easier than 2.0L since it has more displacement...

example: if we look at them honda boys with damn big turbo and 1000cc-1200cc injectors on 1.8L

A local guy ran 10.89 with 2.4L, GT30R, maft, s-afc. but he never talks about this setup and tricks , but sure thing, he doesnt have a standalone, this man doesnt even know what internet his and how to use a desktop computer!!

 

[CanadianTSi]

Originally posted by LamarTSi
A local guy ran 10.89 with 2.4L, GT30R, maft, s-afc. but he never talks about this setup and tricks , but sure thing, he doesnt have a standalone, this man doesnt even know what internet his and how to use a desktop computer!!

You talking about Tapp???

And honestly if you want a setup like that be prepared to spend the big bucks

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by candela
The difference in a stock settup to yours is what? Maybe you should throw that money to make the most of yoru settup first and take it easy on the launches for a while till you can afford it. This is just my opinion friend, take it how you will. But once you hit the dyno and see your A/F curve and you are trying to get lots from the stock ECU (that turbo is VERY capable BTW ) and an afc you will kick yourself in the nutts when you see the incosistencies, changes, compensations and quite simpyl crappy power curve the car makes...

Well i think you are right, i'll stay with the 3052 and get the max of it, it can't be bad... And I can change it easily after anyway!

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by CanadianTSi
You talking about Tapp???

And honestly if you want a setup like that be prepared to spend the big bucks

Nope, just talking about a local guy here in Quebec, Canada. His name is Serge Auclair.

He ran 10.87 @ 124 mph, 27 psi, 110 octane, GT30R, with full interior, full accessories, street dunlop tires... Everything is custom made by himself, manifolds, intercooler, piping...

Here is a picture of his engine bay:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[gritsak]

im running a full garrett 60-1 with a built 2.3l...i just got it finished last weekend and just about 20 break in miles on it and alot more to go (got a new clutch at the same time)....i am running it on the stock ecu, but with a vpc, afc, and i have a fjo....i would say if you cant spend the money on a full standalone, i would at least invest in a wideband. you can get some of them for pretty cheap (like the innovative)..that way you can make the adjustment whenever needed and you can always use it with future upgrades.

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by gritsak
im running a full garrett 60-1 with a built 2.3l...i just got it finished last weekend and just about 20 break in miles on it and alot more to go (got a new clutch at the same time)....i am running it on the stock ecu, but with a vpc, afc, and i have a fjo....i would say if you cant spend the money on a full standalone, i would at least invest in a wideband. you can get some of them for pretty cheap (like the innovative)..that way you can make the adjustment whenever needed and you can always use it with future upgrades.

Yea, I was interested by a wideband but just miss a group buy on my dsm club

Happy to see that you don't go for a StandAlone... Even if your 60-1 trim meet the Red and FP3065 power.

I think your VPC is pretty the same as maf translator with injectors size compensations, etc... Plus the new 2.08 version act more like a s-afc with his new adjustment range.

 

[crankbender]

Man you are really going to get yourself in a hole here. What parts have you bought and what is in the car already.

What are your goals for the car? what pressures are you planning to run?

Here is some basic info for you to use....since it seems you need it.

@37 psi!!!!! 2.3L VE=1 (2.5 on the grapy)
RPM Flow (cfm) LBM
3000 304 22.84
6000 609 45.69
8000 812 60.9


@26 psi (1.75 on the graph)
3000 213 15.9
6000 426 31.9
8000 568 42.64

As you can see your 6k line is just about where you want it to be...and the odds of you having a VE of 1 isn't high....
Realistically you will never spool at 3k and probably not expect to be pulling at 8k


I have this totally screwed up.....grrrr let me fix it.

 

[crankbender]

oops

 

[crankbender]

60 trim way smaller

 

[crankbender]

This has prompted me to write a computer program to automatically calculate flow for engines.

Sigh i will get it to everybody when I can.

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by crankbender
Man you are really going to get yourself in a hole here. What parts have you bought and what is in the car already.

What are your goals for the car? what pressures are you planning to run?

I have everything out of the car since I just rebuilted my engine. So it's the perfect time to make good move if I need to change some parts.

The parts I didn't buy are: the turbo, fp30 o2 housing, oil lines, intake pipe, cams... And still not decided on which tranny options i'll go for.

I'm not shy to say that I want to hit the 10s (since the competition is at this point here, in my region, for street cars) with the 2.3, FP30 turbo, gm maf&maft, race fmic, etc, even if it is 10.99. I work on weight reduction too, I want the car to weight 2700 with me in.

If the car and me driving it can do better, i'll just be happier But i'll let 9s goals for the pros

This is one thing that scares me... if I go for FP3065, this is a 9s turbo... It's a little overkill I guess but things a different with a stroker engine More displacement means more capacity if we have the fuel management to runs it no

What pressure I want to run... well the answer depend on what turbo I use no? Which I don't know right now.

The engine will be able to rev at 8500 with my head works and internal parts balanced. 8.8:1 pistons compression with a thick headgasket so maybe arround 8.5:1 total I guess. I don't wanna be hard with pump gas, but want to reach the max performance of each parts on C16 race gas, so if it can handle 30 psi, I'll set it at 30 psi

But the sure thing is I don't wanna be stuck at 20 psi on race gas because the 2.3L flow too much for the turbo, even if I can hit 10s at 20 psi! Then I'll choose another turbo with better flow capacity.

 

[Dick Hertz]

Oh cool,

Another waste everyone's time with my Christmas in march wish-list thread.

 

[crankbender]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113150

use that stuff to select the right turbo for you.

 

[LamarTSi]

Originally posted by Dick Hertz
Oh cool,

Another waste everyone's time with my Christmas in march wish-list thread.

haha

Originally posted by crankbender
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113150

use that stuff to select the right turbo for you.

Thanks man! I was looking for some calculations charts like that but wasn't able to find it!

Actually, I like my Calculated Values, it really shows me that the FP3052 is going to be too small but not by far...

It looks like that i'll feel a little loss in power above 7500rpm like the 16G loss flow efficiency above 6000rpm!

 

[sunflashx]

Originally posted by crankbender
This has prompted me to write a computer program to automatically calculate flow for engines.

Sigh i will get it to everybody when I can.

Try this spreadsheet.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/tech/turbo.xls

 

[ITSME4G63]

Isn't a fp red like a more efficient version of the 60-1? why wouldn't you want that? Deal with the lag and enjoy the power, since its going to be a 2.4, it should have somewhat less lag compared to the 2.0 . my .02 cents.

 

[dsmturboawd]

3065 > red.

Oh cool,

Another waste everyone's time with my Christmas in march wish-list thread.

welcome to dsmtuners. where everyone wants to run 10's on the street and have zero lag.

 

[98talonAWD]

if it was me... i wouldnt run anything but one of those new Garrett GT Ballistic Concept center sections... duall ball bearing, 65% more efficient, 25 less working components in the center section.

They spool up really fast and come on really hard. More efficient than the standard bushing turbos and the 3065 is good for 35+psi.

 

[Groomz]

www.dsmchips.com

Not standalone, but pretty good. Just my opinion, but the FP3065 would do much better on a 2.3-liter than the FP3052, for obvious flow reasons.

 

[ITSME4G63]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
3065 > red.



welcome to dsmtuners. where everyone wants to run 10's on the street and have zero lag.

I thought you could have zero lag on takeoffs with the second revlimiter using a ems