fmic with inlet/outlet on same side? [Merged 6-7] sideflow crossflow

[DSM90AWD]

Agreed, though my first test would have been a better compare since the JRC was rated at 1/2 the CFMs (650 vs 1100) and > 2x the pressure drop (2.5 vs <1) of the top-bottom.

Believe me when I say I'm suprised that such a "small" core has done as well as it has in my application. Then again, I'm not running rediculously high boost = heat levels (only 23-24psi) and the turbo I was using (T04E 50-Trim) is highly efficient, so the "capacity to cool" was well within the 1100cfm rating of the "small" core (actually was only using 1/2 of it's rated airflow capacity)

Would be interesting to take temp measurements on a side-side and top-bottom FMIC at various points after entry to the core to see at what point diminishing returns are seen to prove/disprove Corky's theory (e.g. the last 1/2 of the side-side does little to further cool). "In theory", since the side-side has 1/2 the cross flow area, the same airflow would travel at 2x the speed thru the side-side core vs the top-bottom. So would need to travel up to 2x more distance thru the core to have the same coolling as the top-bottom. This assumes 100% exposure of both cores to cooling air.

As I said before, I will test myself in practical terms to at least see what the difference is.

BTW.. I remember hearing that AMS was going to test a bunch of different style cores a few years back (much like the camshaft tests), but never heard any results

 

[DSMunknown]

Just in case John or anyone else happens to be interested, this device may also be helpful in reading IC temps (both inlet and outlet) in addition to being able to quickly give the difference between the two readings.

 

[snox135]

Lindsey Racing sells the same unit as SP for about $250. Auto Meter also makes the 3373 which if you shop around you can buy it for about $250.

Here is a write up on installing the 3373 and he goes into some of it features.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-autometer3373.htm

 

[DSM90AWD]

BTW, I had a similar gauge (Nordskog) with the same non-exposed thermocouples and it worked horribly to read rapidly changing air temperatures. I ended up returning it and picking up a GM IAT and datalogging it thru my old TMO datalogger's EGR-T input.

To expand on that, for $130 (what I'm hoping to do) is pick up the Innovate SSI-4 and (2) GM IAT sensors/pigtails so can datalog both inlet/outet temps and boost in real time

 

[daren_p]

Just in case John or anyone else happens to be interested, this device may also be helpful in reading IC temps (both inlet and outlet) in addition to being able to quickly give the difference between the two readings.

Thats a neat little unit but rediculously over priced. I could piece the same thing together at work for less then 1/4 the cost & in CDN $$$.

I'm interested in seeing what kind of results you get from each setup.

 

[Low Impedance]

I'm not sure if this even applies, but in Maximum Boost by Corky Bell, he talks about getting consistent intake temps. From what he said the only way he was able to get consistent temps was to use a load holding dyno and keep the engine at the same load and speed for 5-6 seconds before intake temps would stabilize.

I know with my aem intake temp sensor it seems to take a while before the temps even start to stabilize.

In Maximum Boost, he also said a top to bottom intercooler is worthless unless the tanks have internal baffling to direct the airflow throughout the core. Most top to bottom intercoolers don't have baffling and the charge air generally only flows through about 30% of the core.

the exact quote is "proper interal baffling can create more uniform airflow distribuation through the core and, thus, greater heat rejection. add the baffle to force half the charge to go through the first half of the core and the remainder through the second half."

i see no mention of an exact valve for useage OR that is it even implies that top to bottom is worthless. Especially considering this statement on pg 60.

"this is the proper way to make a bigger intercooler. (shows a TOP TO BOTTOM). always increase the core area by adding a greater number of internal passageways. Do not just make the same number of passages longer."

so TOP to Bottom still wins.

 

[sweet97]

Though my DSM is gone I got a message about this topic and I used a garrett 2-221 I believe that was 18"x6"x3.5" and was a Bottom to top flowing iC most often referred to a top to bottom that supported high 11's with a Holset HX-35/40 and crower stage 4's that were kick butt cams with an SMIM that ran 11's at 122 with the wrong tranny(Team rip sent me a 2G when I had a '93 6-botl motor) I called turbonetics who owns Garrett and got my arse scolded for asking if the IC was good enough and I was colnsidering another B to Top and left pleased that the old 2-221 was still considered fine for 670whp or was it 760whp? More than my 400+WHP anyways. Yo each his own! The late state, mark

 

[DSM90AWD]

FYI.. I spoke to Corky Bell (owns Bell Intercoolers ) to ask specific insight on the above ~two years ago. He still recommends the Top/Bottom due to the greater number or passageways and his theory that the majority of the cooling happens in the first 6" of the core. I did mention to him that it seemed ironic then that the fastest DSMers that run Intercoolers run side-side.

The factor that may not really come into play in his book as is against his belief system (running turbos inefficiently), is that most of us DSMers are running our turbos well out of their efficiency range in lieu of going larger (more lag) so rely heavily on an intercooler's ability to ward of heat soak when presented with sustained high demands.

For example (which I passed by Corky ), an 800HP Mustang running 8psi on twin GT30Rs is going to have alot less demand on intercooling than a DSM running 40psi on a GT42R. Overall airflow will be the same, but the amount of heat transfer woud be significantly greater with the DSM due to the higher boost levels/ lower efficiency.

Corky seemed to be agreeable to the above theory and said he sold side-to-side coolers too

 

[obx tsi]

Has anyone used a same side fmic on a 2g? I will try to upload the picture also. Would like to see pictures if possable or just tell me how it was to install. Thanks.

 

[wimploki]

here you go - http://roadraceengineering.com/parts/icpics/rre1gickit01.jpg

woot! +1 for me... j/k

 

[obx tsi]

Thanks, so if I had hard pipes to the stock side mount location already, I should be able to just add some pipes to make it to the fmic location.

 

[matt j]

ya its not to bad, i had a greddy fmic on my 2g for a while and it had the pipes running across the front mount to the same side, simple install.

 

[DSMunknown]

here you go - http://roadraceengineering.com/parts/icpics/rre1gickit01.jpg

woot! +1 for me... j/k

Actually, this link may prove to be a better reference guide (even though it's for the 1G family).

 

[daren_p]

here you go - http://roadraceengineering.com/parts/icpics/rre1gickit01.jpg

woot! +1 for me... j/k

He asked for pics of a 2g, that pics of a 1g so, -1 for you

 

[DSMunknown]

Has anyone used a same side fmic on a 2g? I will try to upload the picture also. Would like to see pictures if possable or just tell me how it was to install. Thanks.

ShapeGSX has installed the Griffen/Sparco FMIC on his 1997 GSX. But I imagine it's pretty straight forward. Also read through this thread for some good info regarding top-mount FMICs. Of course, with any intercooler, I would advise the installation of flow dividers, but maybe that's just my anal retentive side pearing out from behind the bush.

 

[elementalwindx]

Has anyone used a same side fmic on a 2g? I will try to upload the picture also. Would like to see pictures if possable or just tell me how it was to install. Thanks.

Wow this thread brings back memories. I have that exact fmic and piping on my 2g automatic right now. We modified the piping of course but it fits like a beauty and its handling my scm6152 @ 30psi w/ a 100 shot like its nothin.

My question now is, will this fmic handle a 4088r on a 2.3L setup? My feeling is hell no, so what would be the best fmic for this setup?