Flutter Dump sound with out the danger

[BlackMount]

Soo Flutter Dump...


I'm trying to get the same sound with out the dangers.... Flutter dump from what I understand is when the BOV doesn't open when it should so the turbo "flutters" until it does causing that woopwoopwoopwoop sound

here's an example. I want to recreate the sound without the surge\danger?

YouTube - Sick Supra w/ Greddy Type-R BOV

 

[thomcasey]

That is called a "Dose pipe" They do it a lot in Australia on Holden's. YouTube has tons of videos on it, I am sure there is a How-To for it on there somewhere

 

[BlackMount]

Links?

 

[92AWDTalonTSI]

They do it by rerouting their MAF into the Intercooler system. Then add a 5-6 inch long pipe in front of your turbo and pop a filter onto it. Kind of hard to do on a DSM I'd imagine. The other way as I was reading is to use these: NSFW

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Remember to catch your pigeons your self and DON'T Buy those Chinese ripoffs.

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I borrowed the pics from Fastfours.com.au

 

[jjrock5]

HKS SSQV does that while recirculated and under minor boost. It flutters like crazy. I just hope others are right and this is NOT actual surge.

 

[92AWDTalonTSI]

The SSQV does do this. But then again. Why not install a duck or turkey call on it?

YouTube - Turkey Call Blow Off Valve

 

[JusMX141]

I'm trying to get the same sound with out the dangers....

Then you need to buy a ball-bearing turbo. Try that with a journal bearing turbo and you'll have to rebuild the turbo every time you drive the car.

The mod should only set you back $1300-$1500, depending on what you buy....seems worth it to me if you're looking for a sound that ridiculous.

 

[BlackMount]

Then you need to buy a ball-bearing turbo. Try that with a journal bearing turbo and you'll have to rebuild the turbo every time you drive the car.

The mod should only set you back $1300-$1500, depending on what you buy....seems worth it to me if you're looking for a sound that ridiculous.

I'm getting Flutter on my Stock 14B with my Stock BOV. pretty sure its surge....it happens if I let off right when I start to build boost. Sounds nice tho.


sounds like it's just one of those things not worth the effort to mess with and\or shouldn't be messed with/

 

[ClassicalBor]

They do it by rerouting their MAF into the Intercooler system. Then add a 5-6 inch long pipe in front of your turbo and pop a filter onto it. Kind of hard to do on a DSM I'd imagine. The other way as I was reading is to use these: NSFW

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Remember to catch your pigeons your self and DON'T Buy those Chinese ripoffs.

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I borrowed the pics from Fastfours.com.au

AKA - GM MAF + blow through

why does one pigeon have boobs

 

[ramsack]

i really don't see how it's surge if it's at low boost, but not higher boost. that is ass backwards. it's just the pressures are so low and the BOV is sensitive to this and it opens and closes. i really don't see any dangers to this, unless it's happening at high boost and not low.

 

[JusMX141]

i really don't see how it's surge if it's at low boost, but not higher boost. that is ass backwards.

Anytime the turbo is creating pressure that the engine is not capable of using (even if the throttle plate is 100% CLOSED), it causes compressor surge.

It doesn't have to happen at wide-open throttle, either...just anytime the turbo wants to generate more airflow than the engine can use.

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[ramsack]

i don't want to start an argument here, but if the BOV is blowing off, there has to be positive pressure in the charge pipes and vacuum in the manifold. a BOV is not a scientifically perfect device, so it's going to have a minimum pressure when it can open. even with the BOV open there will be minute pressure in the charge pipe, so there will never not be compressor surge. i just think this fluttering causing problems when it's low boost, low throttle conditions is just exaggerated.

 

[jjrock5]

I seem to only get the "surge" sound in low boost ~5 psi on the FP Green or even the T25 when I had it with the SSQV. I just wish somebody could come to a final and accepted conclusion that IT IS or IT IS NOT causing damage.

Maybe I should just go back to my 1g bov...

 

[ClassicalBor]

its not

 

[JusMX141]

I'm getting Flutter on my Stock 14B with my Stock BOV. pretty sure its surge....it happens if I let off right when I start to build boost.

You're not teeing your manual boost controller into the BOV line by chance?

i don't want to start an argument here, but if the BOV is blowing off, there has to be positive pressure in the charge pipes and vacuum in the manifold. a BOV is not a scientifically perfect device, so it's going to have a minimum pressure when it can open.

I agree, a blow off valve is not something that derived from parts off the retired Space Shuttle Discovery, yet you can expect to spend half of what a new turbo costs to get a name-brand aftermarket blow off valve.

even with the BOV open there will be minute pressure in the charge pipe, so there will never not be compressor surge.

If the valve is opening properly, there should be no pressure present in the piping.

Example- if your wastegate system is working properly and you remove the actuator from the flapper arm, allowing the flapper to blow in the breeze, the turbo will not generate any boost. This means a tiny, 30mm hole has enough effect on the turbo system that it will not allow boost to be generated.

Likewise, a properly-operating bypass valve should be open anytime the engine is on vacuum and never cause any type of compressor surge. Normally it's not until guys install aftermarket blow off valves that this becomes a problem.

i just think this fluttering causing problems when it's low boost, low throttle conditions is just exaggerated.

I'll be sure to tell that to anyone who destroys their journal bearings or bends the turbine shaft as a result of excessive surge.

 

[1995gsx20g]

in case some didn't know the previous post was written by a professional turbo rebuilder.. so the only thing i would be posting are questions on how to better understand what he's saying.

 

[jjrock5]

You're not teeing your manual boost controller into the BOV line by chance?


I agree, a blow off valve is not something that derived from parts off the retired Space Shuttle Discovery, yet you can expect to spend half of what a new turbo costs to get a name-brand aftermarket blow off valve.

If the valve is opening properly, there should be no pressure present in the piping.

Example- if your wastegate system is working properly and you remove the actuator from the flapper arm, allowing the flapper to blow in the breeze, the turbo will not generate any boost. This means a tiny, 30mm hole has enough effect on the turbo system that it will not allow boost to be generated.

Likewise, a properly-operating bypass valve should be open anytime the engine is on vacuum and never cause any type of compressor surge. Normally it's not until guys install aftermarket blow off valves that this becomes a problem.


I'll be sure to tell that to anyone who destroys their journal bearings or bends the turbine shaft as a result of excessive surge.

So you're saying that the typical flutter that the SSQV produces is bad for the turbo as opposed to what others say in all the SSQV threads? I'm just trying to find a conclusion here....

 

[ramsack]

if there is no pressure present in the piping, then air cannot be moving.

 

[RiGs2G]

My car flutters a bit when Im at part throttle and building like 10psi, I either give it more throttle or less to make it stop. Is the flutter bad for the turbo, I would think not since the BOV is letting out the excess pressure in the intercooler pipe?

 

[ramsack]

even if the wastegate is open the turbo will still spin and you can create some boost.

 

[JusMX141]

So you're saying that the typical flutter that the SSQV produces is bad for the turbo as opposed to what others say in all the SSQV threads? I'm just trying to find a conclusion here....

Some of the aftermarket valves and even crushed 1G stockers which are made to hold higher boost will cause a slight amount of surge under 10psi. This may be acceptable on larger turbos (like a 20G or FP Green) because the turbo not only spins at a slower overall speed but the heavier rotating assembly is less likely to be loaded enough by the light surging to the point where the shaft will contact the journal bearings.

if there is no pressure present in the piping, then air cannot be moving.

So as soon as the blow off valve opens, the turbo stops spinning?

NO. The design of the 1G valve is to bypass the throttle plate and put the turbo system into an "open loop" while the engine is on vacuum. There is still air moving, it is just not reaching the engine.

By stiffening the valve or installing an aftermarket valve that is too stiff, you're preventing the turbo system from going into "open loop", so the airflow that cannot reach the engine and cannot escape through the valve backs up in the piping and causes compressor surge.

 

[ramsack]

as soon as the bov open air escapes. the turbo is still spinning. air cannot move without pressure is what i am saying, so there is always pressure present. the BOV is also not always open at all levels of vacuum. there are times before you hit boost where you can definitely feel the turbo helping to add power, despite being no boost, so the BOV must be closed.

i just think the lesson is stay with the stock BOV until it can't flow enough to prevent surge.

 

[ramsack]

i just had a thought. maybe it has to do with the BOV being AFTER the intercooler. the intercooler is a place that creates pressure because of restriction. the closer to the turbo the BOV is the better.

 

[JusMX141]

Some turbos have the compressor bypass valve mounted directly on the turbo itself (SRT4):

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...then there are some cars that run a pressurized tube the entire way around the engine bay with the BOV stuck on the end nearest the turbo's inlet (Evo X):

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As with anything else, I'm sure either manufacturer will argue that their design is superior.

 

[EclipticalGS]

buy an hx-35 and dont use a BOV, from what I understand some diesel engines didnt use BOV's?? Correct me if im wrong but theres a video on youtube where a kid is driving around with his hood open and claims he is NOT using any BOV what so ever.

YouTube - SR20DET Compressor Surge

He says 2 years and still going strong. Apparently ^^ its right there.