First trip to dyno - 20g, 360 hp, 353 tq on e85

[Derail20T]

I got my car tuned at Forced Engineering yesterday and I am pretty pleased with the results. I gotta say that the guys at Forced Engineering are great and I'd recommend them to anyone! Especially Tyler, who tuned my car, and stayed over 3 hours late because we were late getting to the shop.

I just switched to e85 and Tyler did a great job tuning it. I'm heading to the track tomorrow night to see what she'll run. I did think I'd make more power, but as they say dyno are heartbreak machines.
So the question is, how do I get more from my setup?
I'm running at the limit of my wastegate, so if I want more boost I'd have to upgrade that or get a different turbo. Aside from the turbo, I could change the cams, intake or exhaust manifolds. I'm thinking about switching to Crane 264 cams, an fp exhaust manifold, and a jmf Street Manifold...
I'd like to get my torque curve to flatten out after it peaks instead of dropping so my horsepower powerband will get better... Any thoughts?

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[turtleb00st]

is this an 05 or 06 turbine 20g? also is it exteneded tip compressor? unless you autocross the car (man are these cars terrible to autocross with) i would change my mind on future mods

gsc s2 cams will give you 30hp easy probably more and you won't loose much
jmf race mani
fp mani

If you are on an internal gate you can modify a holset wg actuator to get more boost out of it.

 

[rangerguy]

Impressive, I wish we had E85 where we live.

 

[Derail20T]

Thanks, I am on the td05 housing with internal wastegate and 7 blade extended tip compressor, but I think I might go external wastegate to help control the boost, and set myself up for future upgrades... To be honest though, this turbo has been very laggy. I'm wondering if I've had a leaking wastegate from the beginning... I've never seen full boost until after 4000 rpm.
I don't really know if there is any way to test a wastegate to see if it's operating correctly though.

 

[evoredy]

First off,

GREAT numbers. That car is a beast. I miss my E85 20G setup just because it was a street monster.

Secondly,

Get rid of the Pacesetter Header and put a 2G exhaust manifold (ported fire ring/or not /still better) or get an EVO 3 exhaust manifold. It's cheap and you will notice better spool and performance for your setup.

I bought the Pacesetter Header and immediately sold it after some logging and driving coming from my 2G manifold when I had an HRC 20G that I converted to TD05 (on E85). I don't think there was any R&D put into that unit.

If you get an FP "Race" manifold, like I have now, you will still have a slower spool-up, but it flows leaps and bounds over any of the three manifolds listed above on top end. This is recommended for your setup and occasional drag strip time.

I have the GSC/DSM S2's now. They will benefit, but do the exhaust manifold first, then the cams (unless money is not an option!) You will touch 400 no problem with these two mods about 27-30PSI (the max you will see from that TD05H 20G/so you're done now from what I see on the dyno-sheet). It WILL run all day like that though if it's an OEM Mitsu CHRA.

Make sure you get a re-tune with EVERY new mod. Good luck at the track.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Seamus]

You you're numbers aren't bad for your car. I don't know why you are heartbroken. Your spool is bad though I think for o5h with e85. It may be the tune, it may be a hiccup in your setup. Convrats also on getting it to 27 psi on an internal waste gate. Did it hold it? That could be your rapid drop in torque also cams and the tune. A good cam alone should get you to 400hp or damn close at that boost level I think. Cams and an external wastegats with as close to 27 psi spring as you can along with electronic boost control and optimized can gears will turn this car into a riot. I'm sure you're already enjoying it.

Btw if your current tuner is not a whiz at can timing it can be an expensive dyno day trying to optimize spool, power or whatever. If you don't trust them, to be efficient and well educated, find a real hardcorr race shop with experience getting g every last ounce out of a combo.

 

[Derail20T]

Thanks for the replies guys...
Seamus, I'm not really heartbroken, I know that dynos are better tuning tools than performance indicators - especially Mustang dynos. Truthfully though, I was hoping to break 400 hp! I am not impressed with the slow spool because I've read about other people's 20g's that spool relatively quickly. Also, my wastegate was holding 27 - 28 psi...
Evoredy, I already switched out to the 2g Manifold, but it's not ported. Can you see my old profile? I don't know where it is to change it! Here is my new profile...

Bolt-on Modifications:
Billet extended tip 7blade 20g, 2g exhaust manifold, 3" Turbo back exhaust, VRSF FMIC, WALBRO 255 - rewired, Manual boost controller, Cyclone Intake properly actuated

Engine Management:
DSMLINK V3 FULL LC1 WIDEBAND, SPEED DENSITY

Engine Internals:
JDM 6 Bolt, Stock internals, JAM ported and polished head with 1mm oversized valves, Kelford 264 cams

Drivetrain Modifications:
Jacks Transmission 1.2 5 speed, 4 Bolt rear end, Southbend SS-TZ Clutch

Suspension Modifications:
KYG AGX

Timeslip Info
2013
1/4 Mile: 12.636 @ 111.430
1/8 Mile: 8.231 @ 88.030
60' Time: 1.740
Link to physical Timeslip 
Turbo Used: 20G
Type of Fuel: Pump gas
Nitrous? No
Tires Used: Street Radials
Race Weight: Full
Track: St. Thomas Dragway
Tranny: Manual
Sponsored Car? no

 

[1SloEvo]

That's interesting that the car is dying off so quick up top. I personally would just swap out the exhaust manifold for an fp manifold. The cams aren't huge, but they are a good size for a nice broad powerband on that turbo. If that doesn't get you where you want to be, then I say swap to a slightly larger cam. Great numbers regardless. And as mentioned, chasing numbers on a MD is tough do!

 

[Derail20T]

Just an update...
I did make it to the track yesterday, but didn't have very good luck. I've developed a host of problems that need attention...
I am being plagued by shifter cable problems that won't allow me to shift quickly or use nlts into 2nd gear.
I think my iat sensor went out on me too, because in my logs it was oscillating from 120 to 5 degrees, which made my afr's all wacky.
My map sensor was only reading 25-26 psi, so I'm thinking that I developed a boost leak at the track. My previous logs on the same day were 28-29 psi. A blt is definitely on the schedule for today!
To top it all off, I think the voltage regulator on my 3 month old alternator is going... My lights are dimming and brightening in a quick cycle, and logging the voltage in DSMLINK confirms it.
So now I'll be fixing all these issues as well as installing a flex Fuel sensor, so I can easily switch between e85 and pump gas... There aren't too many e85 stations in my area. I have to cross the bridge into the US to get it! Once all of my issues are fixed, I think I'll be getting the fp Manifold and upgrading wastegate if money allows. I'll leave my intake and cams for now and see how the other mods perform.

 

[evoredy]

Derail20T,

Yeah, I saw your old profile. Your above mod list (post #7) makes much more sense now as you just don't have a factory freak JDM motor.

I had the same issues Friday at my local track with the alternator/battery light flickering on an "Autozone" unit (<6 months old). I checked my logs and fueling/battery was OK so I did 3 passes total. I promptly changed it to a "junkyard" OEM Galant unit that I found. This solved that issue instantly (but for how long?!).

Good luck.

 

[Derail20T]

Thanks for the link, I just updated it... I'll have to add my dyno info too!

 

[ceedawg]

Thanks for the link, I just updated it... I'll have to ;add my dyno info too!

I don't think you need to change those cams at all. People have made 600+whp on smaller BC272's.

 

[Derail20T]

I don't think you need to change those cams at all. People have made 600+whp on smaller BC272's.

I think I'll stick with these cams for now, after all I just Installed them! I'll do the other mods like the fp Manifold and upgraded wastegate first and see what kind of results I get.

 

[GSLENK]

How far after 4k rpm? I have the 20g (td06 comp housing downfiring, and td05 turbine housing) and I seem to get full spool right around or after 4k rpm. 27/28 psi before 4200-4300 really depends on the gear. Nice time slip. Whats the car weigh (all factory stuff in it? ac etc...)?

Attached is a second gear pull (slower spool that 3rd gear pulls) This was with leaking wastegate flange surfaces (preturbine exhaust leak technically)

 

[Derail20T]

How far after 4k rpm? I have the 20g (td06 comp housing downfiring, and td05 turbine housing) and I seem to get full spool right around or after 4k rpm. 27/28 psi before 4200-4300 really depends on the gear. Nice time slip. Whats the car weigh (all factory stuff in it? ac etc...)?

Attached is a second gear pull (slower spool that 3rd gear pulls) This was with leaking wastegate flange surfaces (preturbine exhaust leak technically)

On the dyno I didn't get full boost until 4800 rpm! It was really slow to spool, but hit really hard. On the street with pump gas, I was typically getting full boost around 4200 rpm.
The car is full weight with a full interior, and usually with a Booster seat for my son! He loves riding in the Talon!

 

[Seamus]

I think I'll stick with these cams for now, after all I just Installed them! I'll do the other mods like the fp Manifold and upgraded wastegate first and see what kind of results I get.

I thought u had stock cams

 

[Derail20T]

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I have kelford TX264 cams... Should be good up to 500 hp...

 

[Seamus]

Well with those cams and I looked back at. Boost on or dyno the tune is probably causing the torque to fall off.

My 3.5 yo boy loves my 1g too. Even though I drive a new fancy car from work he loves my DSM. I swapped my motor over to a super clean low mile body last year and he was max it didn't have a roof anymore.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Walbro 255 on e85? What injectors are you running? Porting that 2g manifold will def help. Can't wait to see what I run.

 

[Seamus]

Walbro 255 on e85? What injectors are you running? Porting that 2g manifold will def help. Can't wait to see what I run.

The walvbro 255 will support any of these small/medium turbos on ethanol power wise. The problem is they can't support a lot of boost. Running 35psi on a 255 walking g on the knife edge.

 

[turtleb00st]

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I have kelford TX264 cams... Should be good up to 500 hp...

Stock cams are good to 600hp. That means nothing. a set of gs2 cams will give a good 30-50whp over 264s on a proper set up. It's been proven over and over. The fastest evo 3 full weight car I have seen have s2s. English did a 264 to s2 test and saw huge gains. From 5k to 7500 the gains are well worth it.

Also a hp 255 with a relief mod can help with the high boost people run on e85

 

[wickedboost92]

I just came across this post. Any updates on car? Im running a sort of simliar setup. Small 16g, 1150 fic, 255, v3link with sd, e85, 22lbs boost, put down 362hp and 400lb. good numbers man!

 

[bastarddsm]

Stock cams are good to 600hp. That means nothing. a set of gs2 cams will give a good 30-50whp over 264s on a proper set up. It's been proven over and over. The fastest evo 3 full weight car I have seen have s2s. English did a 264 to s2 test and saw huge gains. From 5k to 7500 the gains are well worth it.

Start cranking up the boost, get close to maxing out a turbo and those gains will diminish. All these guys posting the cams tests are running low boost stuff.

 

[GofaST4life]

Love your numbers!

However, your spool up seem super slow for a td05 20g. I'm running the same, on a completely stock long block and IM w/ an FP Race Manifold. I see 20+ PSI at 3700rpm. This is on 93 oct, very minor timing changes, running SD with V3, 750s and a 255pump.

I love this setup for the street and on the highway, its almost instant spool cruising at 3200-3500rpm.

Id be really curious to find out why your setup takes so long to spool up.

I will be making the change to E85 here very soon, so seeing these numbers really gets me excited.

 

[Derail20T]

Thanks for the compliments, I have done a bunch of changes to the car since I last posted in this thread. By the end of the summer last year I had a slipping clutch and I also blew my head gasket, so I decided that it was a good time to do some upgrades! I installed a built bottom end with Eagle rods and wiseco 9:1 Pistons and I did an auto swap. I've had transmission issues since the swap but I'm hoping to have them sorted out in the next couple of weeks. I have also acquired an old school fp red which I plan on running after my engine is broken in. So for the most part I've done lots of changes but don't have any results as of yet, but I am pretty excited for this summer to do lots of racing!