First time datalogging

[69_luv]

Got the car running, and my pocketlogger setup. Went for a couple runs and wanted to see if someone could help me out.
First running:
Pump GAS(91+), Denzo 550, Walbro 255, MAFT with 2.0 in Blowthrough. The rest of the supporting mods are there...
Base=4
Idle=7
Mid=3
WOT=3

Rpms O2 Timing

1868 .00 25
2072 .00 26
2208 .00 26
2632 .00 28
3100 .00 27
3572 .00 27
3900 .05 31
4168 .19 32
4400 .00 33

2068 .09 16
2280 .09 17
2496 .09 17
2992 .09 20
3512 .11 20
4124 .14 15
4964 .59 15
4080 .68 33
2632 .00 22
1760 .00 28
1336 .00 23
1104 .00 14
1360 .00 14
1484 .00 14
1616 .00 14
1704 .00 14
2092 .00 16
2840 .00 19
3324 .00 20
3892 .01 16
4604 .03 13
5468 .00 18
5572 .37 10
4348 .11 13
3964 .15 33
3536 .00 31
2948 .00 26
2416 .00 22
1912 .00 28
1500 .00 25
1100 .00 17
856 .00 14



Peak Values on most of runs are around 6k rpms, O2 .68 and timing in the 33-34 range.

I am sure this is a newbie question but is knock corrilate with the timing at all? How do I know how much knock I am getting on a 2g?

Thanks for any help.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Did you ever go WOT??

Looks like your o2 sensor is dead...

 

[69_luv]

Yes I did go WOT, and if in the datalogger TPS stands for the throttle position sensor, it went to 96 and 98 as I went WOT. If the O2 sensor was bad wouldn't that cause a lot more issues like CEL light, and crazy fuel issues?

My big question is on the timing/knock issue. Is my timing to high? I thought I read in the tuning issue that if I was on pump gas that I should be in the 20-24 range. I am hitting 34-36 every time I go to WOT, or even MID.

Also my Apexi Turbo timer has a O2 reading as well, is it very accurate?

 

[CanadianTSi]

your o2's are really messed up, they should be in the .90's

the o2 reading on the TT is accurate.

 

[69_luv]

So would both O2's be messed? Or just the one on the O2 housing? Shouldn't I be getting a CEL? I guess tomorrow I will looking into the plugs, wires, and make sure everything is good. Will the O2 voltages make a difference with the timing? And does the timing have anything to do with knock? How can I find out how much knock I am getting in my 2g? I know that 1g guys have knock sensors, but what about my 2g? Sorry if some of these questions are "newbie" but I know how to put the stuff on the cars, and take the stuff off, but this tuning thing with palms is kind of new. Thanks for any help

 

[CanadianTSi]

2nd o2 sensor doesn't matter, only the 1 up front is important. It looks like it's still kinda working only the numbers it's reporting seem way wrong.

There's no way to see knock, if your timing is getting pulled then you are probably knocking.

I suggest replacing your o2 sensor and then do another log.

 

[69_luv]

replacing the O2, you make it sound so easy, I am going to have to save a paycheck to afford the $120 for the front one....

Its kind of weird I looked through my saved logs and saw that in most of them the O2 was intermitent. Maybe my plug is fugged up. Don't know, but I will look at it tomorrow. Would a O2 that wasn't working cause problems, and again wouldn't the CEL be on?

 

[mitch83]

my O2 volts are the same as yours only mine just never go above like 0.11. I'm going to swap my O2 with a friends and see what that does. I'm pretty sure thats my deal cause I took my heat sheild off my manifold and one day I smelled somthing burning I checked under the hood and the O2 wire's were laying on the manifold smoking like a chimney so we'll see I'll keep the updates coming.
mitch

 

[Nos~4G63]

Im new to the whole tuning thing so correct me if I am wrong...
Timing=Power Tune for as much timing as you can. When you see the timing suddenly
decrease then you know your knock sensor has detected knock and is pulling timing to
keep your motor from blowing up.
Are you sure you gave us the numbers from a WOT log? Throw in a new 02 and make a
log from 3k-7k or so, then post the numbers so we can re-evaluate.

 

[69_luv]

I ordered a new O2 sensor, didn't want to risk going used or anything. Now I am waiting for my DNP header to get back from Jet Hot, I had to take the header and O2 housing out to get the O2 sensor out, it was siezed in there. So I bought a new O2 housing and sent the header off. I am expecting it today or tomorrow.

I am 100 % sure part of my problem was a dead O2 sensor, the thing was caked looked like the original, and had frayed wires.

You mentioned something about Timing=Power tune, not sure what that means. I am pretty sure that Timing doesn't mean anything with knock, but don't know...

Everyone talks about knock, but isn't that mostly for 1g guys? What are 2g guys supposed to do if they want to see knock?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Buy DSMLink. Otherwise, pulled timing generally is knock.

 

[Blk_99gst]

I am 100 % sure part of my problem was a dead O2 sensor, the thing was caked looked like the original, and had frayed wires.

Good. Replace that o2 sensor. And then go for a logging run; the best would be a 3rd gear pull, starting at about 2800-3000rpm. On the logger, log rpm, throttle position, front o2 voltage, and timing. Make sure your sample rate is as high as possiblte, 12-18 samples per second. Post up the log results, with info, gear you were in, etc...

You mentioned something about Timing=Power tune, not sure what that means. I am pretty sure that Timing doesn't mean anything with knock, but don't know...

There was a really good thread recently on this, you can search for it but I'll try to summarize. What's better for more power: more boost, or more timing advance. More air flow will give you more power (because more gas is burned), but it has to be use-able air. 20psi on a t25 is not use-able; it's heated up too much because the t25 is not efficent at that level. After you get the right about of boost, then you want as much timing advance as possible without knock/retarded timing. You will not make good power if you're getting knock and your timing is getting pulled as you go through the gear (to 7k rpm). Ideally, timing should dip down to about 7 or 8 when boost hits, and then should creap up to 16-18degs at the top of the gear.

Everyone talks about knock, but isn't that mostly for 1g guys? What are 2g guys supposed to do if they want to see knock?

Yes, 1g's can see knock count through their loggers; us 2g's can not. To see 2g knock count, you would have to get dsmlink; pretty expensive solution though. Or for a 2g, you could get a pocketlogger and a wideband, those two make a pretty powerful tuning tool(s).

 

[Nos~4G63]

My post is all screwed up cause I am at work and using an access gateway to surf the
forum. It messes up all my post for some reason.

Im just trying to say to tune for the highest possible amount of timing.

 

[69_luv]

thanks for clearing that up Blk.

Waiting for parts sux so bad. My car has been down for 3 weeks now, but I know that getting the header back from Jet Hot is going to be worth the wait.

I will keep you guys posted on my 3rd gear pulls, along with any other interesting tid-bits...

By the way how accurate are those G-tek windshield mounted speed gauges. They give you 0-60, and 1/4 mile...I know they won't be as accurate as a timeslip or anything, but sense I can't take my car to a strip (shaved door handles) I would like to see how close I am to 11's.

 

[69_luv]

Got the new O2 sensor installed, and the header back from jetcoating. Went for some runs, car runs like poooo

Did some more tunning.

My maft settings...pic posted at bottom, Sorry but the pic is blury

Aux 4, base 4, idle 4, mid 3, WOT 3
Dip switch on, off, off, off


For some reason I have to have the first dip switch in the on position, that would mean I am running a 3.5 gm Maf? with dip switch one up the car runs good with good throttle response but craps out at 5k or so...boost leak mabye? Did a leak check and everything checks good....hmmm
Idle is super high, like 2300 or so, if I turn the dip switch off the car runs really bad, but idles...hmmm again

So I went for runs, O2 Voltage climbs gets to 1.0 floats in the .9 range, but bounces around constantly, like from .10 to .8 in two frames on the logger. Don't know, but to top the scales off the car won't start worth a damn. I mean its really hard to start, and then all of a sudden its like its getting fuel and says it will start. I just installed a new Walbro(first one was the wrong one), I have a CEL light for fuel managment, bank 1? I think its P0170.

I really hate this car... :thumbdown

 

[saxrulez]

Got the new O2 sensor installed, and the header back from jetcoating. Went for some runs, car runs like poooo

Did some more tunning.

My maft settings...pic posted at bottom, Sorry but the pic is blury

Aux 4, base 4, idle 4, mid 3, WOT 3
Dip switch on, off, off, off


For some reason I have to have the first dip switch in the on position, that would mean I am running a 3.5 gm Maf? with dip switch one up the car runs good with good throttle response but craps out at 5k or so...boost leak mabye? Did a leak check and everything checks good....hmmm
Idle is super high, like 2300 or so, if I turn the dip switch off the car runs really bad, but idles...hmmm again

So I went for runs, O2 Voltage climbs gets to 1.0 floats in the .9 range, but bounces around constantly, like from .10 to .8 in two frames on the logger. Don't know, but to top the scales off the car won't start worth a damn. I mean its really hard to start, and then all of a sudden its like its getting fuel and says it will start. I just installed a new Walbro(first one was the wrong one), I have a CEL light for fuel managment, bank 1? I think its P0170.

I really hate this car... :thumbdown

O2 voltage bounces up and down at cruise. When you go WOT it will level out and stay at a value. Its good taht its bouncing like that at cruise.

I dont know anything about MAFT though, so you're outta luck

As for your timing, timing at cruise is always going to be very high. Its only at WOT that you should be looking at(which is the 18-20ish degrees you always hear people talking about) The SECOND you let off from WOT your timing is going to be really high again, and is pretty much irrelevant for tuning.

And if you do another log, try and go WOT at ~3000rpms and take it to around 6k rpms. 3rd gear is the best, b/c 2nd gear tend to go by a little too quickly to make things real accurate.

 

[saxrulez]

thanks for clearing that up Blk.

Waiting for parts sux so bad. My car has been down for 3 weeks now, but I know that getting the header back from Jet Hot is going to be worth the wait.

I will keep you guys posted on my 3rd gear pulls, along with any other interesting tid-bits...

By the way how accurate are those G-tek windshield mounted speed gauges. They give you 0-60, and 1/4 mile...I know they won't be as accurate as a timeslip or anything, but sense I can't take my car to a strip (shaved door handles) I would like to see how close I am to 11's.

I wouldnt get too caught up on hitting 11's yet either They're a little harder to come by than you are probably thinking. Although I'd love to see you do it, 11's on a 16g fwd is pretty hard to do!

 

[lowridin2g]

let me just say that your o2 sensor is most definetly dead. and no 9 times out of ten it wont throw a cel. mine didnt when it died anyway. replace your front o2 sensor. you should be seeing in the .90 - .98 ish range

 

[kpt4321]

For some reason I have to have the first dip switch in the on position, that would mean I am running a 3.5 gm Maf?

I don't know, are you running a 3.5" MAF?

Use the instructions that came with the MAFT to put the dip switches in their proper locations. Don't even bother asking questions or trying to troubleshoot until you do this.

Once that is done, tune the car using the fuel trims.

MAFT version 2.00+ Tuning Guide:

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105

 

[spendone]

Yea you definately have the dip switches set on a 3.5" maf. Try to lean it all out and see what happens. Set them all at "0". There was a point when I thought I was tunign right with my translator but it turned out I was running so rich that my car felt like crap. There were no knock but acceleration was real laggy and I kept getting boost creep out the wazoo when I hit 4,000 rpm's. Definately try leaning it out, what can it hurt?? (Well that wasn't a good phrase to use, but it will be ok) Whne I had my 450's in I actually had my mid leaned out -15%. and my 550's that are in my car know is leaned out -10%. So liek I said, it's worth a shot.

 

[spendone]

Yea you definately have the dip switches set on a 3.5" maf. Try to lean it all out and see what happens. Set them all at "0". There was a point when I thought I was tuning right with my translator but it turned out I was running so rich that my car felt like crap. There were no knock but acceleration was real laggy and I kept getting boost creep out the wazoo when I hit 4,000 rpm's. Definately try leaning it out, what can it hurt?? (Well that wasn't a good phrase to use, but it will be ok) Whne I had my 450's in I actually had my mid leaned out -15%. and my 550's that are in my car know is leaned out -10%. So liek I said, it's worth a shot.