First DSM Engine Build/Wiseco Concerns

[Purple_Demon]

I recently picked up a 95 talon tsi for a decent price. Well the decent price came because of bad rings in the 7bolt motor. I have had a Burschar 6 bolt shortblock in my bedroom for some time now and will be switching the 7bolt out for the 6bolt. But I have a few concerns about the internals of the motor and using the 2g head on the 6bolt bottom end.

The finished car will be a mild 400-450 AWHP daily driven car. DSM link v3, etc.

Firstly, the 6bolt motor i purchased came with the burschar wiseco/eagle combo .20 over, non stroker. I have heard enough horror stories lately that I have grown concerned with the reliability potential i.e. the wiseco pistons suffering from sideskirt failure, to cylinder wall cracking and excessive piston slap.

I understand that stock internals shouldnt really be pushed past 500whp, and that "reliability" goes out the door after so long. So my big question is as follows:

Is there a different type of piston I could run to hold the power I plan on running and do it safely? Perhaps a semi cast/forged piston instead of fully forged?



The second concern I had was the CAS on the 7bolt bead while being used on the 6bolt short block. I have read on several tutorials to use the 1G CAS and so on. But the head I have on the car now is a 7 bolt head...with no CAS. Ive been told by a few friends that it is a "weird one" and shouldnt be an issue. So can someone clarify the no CAS issue? I have a spare 7bolt head laying around i can use if necessary and it has the opening for the CAS

I searched for possible answers but couldnt really pinpoint what I was looking for. So if there happen to be any threads I may have missed please shoot a link my way!

 

[SupremeDsm]

If your not comfortable with wiseco then get a set of manley pistons. I absolutely love mine.

 

[Purple_Demon]

How long have you been running yours? Are then semi-cast or full forged?

 

[Burnett03]

Manleys are forged.

 

[V12 Killa]

Buy some new ones and sell the wisecos.

Here's a write-up for a 95-96 CAS/CPS to 1g CAS. And be sure to drill out the holes on the 2g head for the 6-bolt head studs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/289870-installing-1g-cas-2g.html

 

[Purple_Demon]

Buy some new ones and sell the wisecos.

Here's a write-up for a 95-96 CAS/CPS to 1g CAS. And be sure to drill out the holes on the 2g head for the 6-bolt head studs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/289870-installing-1g-cas-2g.html

I have more or less set in stone that Im selling the wisecos. But I will deffinitely look into the Manley Pistons.



I have not yet seen that thread for the CAS, I greatly appreciate the link.


And yes the head stud holes on the head will be drilled out. I understand the big picture, there were just a few things I had no answers for.

 

[kidtsi]

Man we pop open a motor that a dsm shop here build in 2006,the same person took it apart, wisecos were like fine the little tapping noise was a cracked crank! Same story with my motor minus the craked crank, no hairline cracks.
this dsm shop is here since 94 and guess what is the only brand he uses?

 

[elterror]

Man we pop open a motor that a dsm shop here build in 2006,the same person took it apart, wisecos were like fine the little tapping noise was a cracked crank! Same story with my motor minus the craked crank, no hairline cracks.
this dsm shop is here since 94 and guess what is the only brand he uses?

WISECO

 

[WES_393]

If your not comfortable with wiseco then get a set of manley pistons. I absolutely love mine.

Same here. Excellent pistons made by a company who has nearly a half century experience with performance parts.

 

[Purple_Demon]

Well I cant sell the Wisecos. I was curious and decided to bust out the old magnifying glass and take a look....every piston has sideskirt cracks on it. So those are now useless.....friend swore up and down they were good, upon first glance they were, guess not. So looks like ill be getting some Manleys after all.....

 

[keltalon]

Well I cant sell the Wisecos. I was curious and decided to bust out the old magnifying glass and take a look....every piston has sideskirt cracks on it. So those are now useless.....friend swore up and down they were good, upon first glance they were, guess not. So looks like ill be getting some Manleys after all.....

Another believer welcome to the club.

 

[cybertrip]

First clue should have been that it was sold as a buschur block, i've never known buschur to use eagle / wiseco combo.

 

[1983gsp]

JE make an awesome piston as well.

 

[Purple_Demon]

So where did you all get your manley pistons? I see DSM graveyard has them for 445 and jayracing has them for 538.


Ill have to check into JE Pistons, they were popular in the turbo charged hondas, and it looks like they were used in Buschar's "Project white". So that in itself is a nice additive.

 

[bryanwheat]

Supertech pistons are also a good choice and they are cheap. They are a low expansion piston like mahle. They are like 375 for a set.

 

[Purple_Demon]

Ive heard Supertech has had some inconsistencies with sizing, and I have personally seen some poor quality casting in them with other brands of motors(honda/mazda). I am going to look into the Mahle pistons as well, I like the idea of the low expansion rate. I do appreciate all of the info and variety of answers. Couldn't ask for a better forum

Well the wiesco pistons are off the eagle rods. I just pulled the spring clips out of the retainer groove and tapped the wrist pin out. The inner part of the rod(small end) is a little brown on the inside, is this normal?


Apologies about the auto merge I thought I was editing, not making another post.

 

[Purple_Demon]

Bumping this back up for those of you that run manleys, my block is ready for pistons but I am still not sure of which brand to get. The build goals have changed a little:

hx35 turbo will be ran and shooting for close to 500whp

I really like the idea of manleys, bit Ive also been looking into Mahle, they are a low expansion piston, which would be a huge plus for me. The car will be ran as a DD/every other day vehicle. or a Weekend warrior

 

[gs59_20]

Any updates on what you did? I know it's been so long ago,but right now I'm in the dilemma of what pistons to buy as well. I've heard the stories about wiseco as well,so i know what your talking about. The fact that the failure and cracking happens in the same place all the time isn't reassuring. i've heard good things with manley,but can't really find anywhere near me with a good deal. My machinist,whom I trust and is great with all the work he does for me,has told me to just go with the supertech since I'm not looking to push past 300 really. but I can't find anyone who will set at a good deal. Was able to find a site that sold them at about $72 each,wich is great,but not the set. Any info you have on what you did and how it turned out would be some help to me right now.

 

[bastarddsm]

I've been rocking wiseco's for about 20k in my car. I learned how to tune on this engine, had many tuning errors, blew up a couple turbo's, and nabbed the HX/HY35 horsepower record. Been making 600whp for a long time, and I beat it like a red headed middle step child, I shift at 9k too!. No cracked skirts, no broken wrist pins, no melted valve reliefs. My block was machined to the EXACT clearance wiseco specified, and assembled by me, with care, not "my best hamfisted attempt" like most others. I had this engine apart a few months ago to re-ring it, and the pistons were in great shape.

My biggest suggestion is to make sure the wrist pins fit right, and have the bores honed as necessary. This is standard engine building practice, and should be done to ANY piston. However it is something that is normally overlooked by most private guys building a motor, and is truly what seperates the men from the boys as they say.

 

[gs59_20]

I've been rocking wiseco's for about 20k in my car. I learned how to tune on this engine, had many tuning errors, blew up a couple turbo's, and nabbed the HX/HY35 horsepower record. Been making 600whp for a long time, and I beat it like a red headed middle step child, I shift at 9k too!. No cracked skirts, no broken wrist pins, no melted valve reliefs. My block was machined to the EXACT clearance wiseco specified, and assembled by me, with care, not "my best hamfisted attempt" like most others. I had this engine apart a few months ago to re-ring it, and the pistons were in great shape.

My biggest suggestion is to make sure the wrist pins fit right, and have the bores honed as necessary. This is standard engine building practice, and should be done to ANY piston. However it is something that is normally overlooked by most private guys building a motor, and is truly what seperates the men from the boys as they say.

this is a little relief,when I spoke to my machinist he told me to bring in the pistons to measure cylinder wall clearance so he can hone. He said most shops mess up in just boring out and honing to what specs they get. But he measures the actual piston each builder uses first before he hones just in case things are a little off. I know he does great work due to stuff he's done for me before,but with the amount of negative feedback Wiseco has gotten I've just been on the fence

 

[bastarddsm]

this is a little relief,when I spoke to my machinist he told me to bring in the pistons to measure cylinder wall clearance so he can hone. He said most shops mess up in just boring out and honing to what specs they get. But he measures the actual piston each builder uses first before he hones just in case things are a little off. I know he does great work due to stuff he's done for me before,but with the amount of negative feedback Wiseco has gotten I've just been on the fence

Yeah, I think waay too many people are quick to jump on the blame wagon. Some people have failures, other have them last a life time. But, the people cyring of failures are the guys who have lackluster results, constantly parting cars, check some clearances, but not all...

You don't see the guys setting records or winning having with problems....They might keep them to themselves, but they certainly are not pointing the finger at anyone else.

Also remember that this is a race motor, and you shouldn't expect it to last 100k, if you run it like a race motor. Be happy if you get 10k out of it.

 

[TurboDSM90]

Had an injector signal mishap, melted an HD piston inspected the block, came back good, rehoned and found a regular set of Wiseco NON HD pistons just to finish this racing season.

Went 9.4@146 and I am still gonna crank it up. No strange sounds, no cracks, no worries. This short block is solid with the non-hd pistons. Now if only Cometic made a HG like they used to...

 

[TurboDSM90]

Had an injector signal mishap, melted an HD piston inspected the block, came back good, rehoned and found a regular set of Wiseco NON HD pistons just to finish this racing season.

Went 9.4@146 and I am still gonna crank it up. No strange sounds, no cracks, no worries. This short block is solid with the non-hd pistons. Now if only Cometic made a HG like they used to...

EDIT- I tore this motor down a few months ago and found the non HD wisecos had minor cracks in all 4 the skirts.

We noticed the motor was getting really noisy on cold start, so the tear down was inevitable.