Fabbing 1g widebody front fenders?

[roadrunner2176]

I did a fender project last spring for my 97 talon. I know the models are not the same, but I can offer some advice on making a mold, setting templates and so on. Sounds like your going to be making complete fenders, I would suggest taking a scrap fender and hacking that before using your own.

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[mavisky]

If you make it just a set of rivet on fender flares you can make the front a 2 piece so that one part attaches to the stock bumper, and the other attaches to the fender.

 

[Ludachris]

Chris, your link says it is forbidden. Can you upload the picture to this thread?

I don't like the finish on the Porche, especially the line by the headlights. I'd picture it as being more integrated and smooth. You are right about needing a bumper cover to make this design work well though. I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for that but I do have an Invader body kit waiting for me to pick up. I could try and use it for reference to design something. Of course, that would raise the price of a full kit up quite a bit. I'd like to keep this at a range where many poor DSMers like me can afford it.

I'm not sure how you can help out besides ideas given with our distance apart, but any help you can contribute is most welcome.

The link I posted is just to one of the specific photos in the Rally car link you posted. It's the blue and yellow rally car 3/4 view.

 

[eclipsh]

If you make it just a set of rivet on fender flares you can make the front a 2 piece so that one part attaches to the stock bumper, and the other attaches to the fender.

Thanks for the thought but there are already plenty of things like that on the market. You can buy a set on eBay for a couple hundred bucks. They aren't specifically designed as rivet-on persay but they could be used that way. This would also leave people cuttng their stock fenders up to give the extra rubbing clearance. I'd like to make this a bolt-on and paint affair. I could see about a rivet-on part for the bumper but people would have to shape the backside of it themselves.

Roadrunner: any specific tips you can think of? Snags you didn't expect etc?

Depending on how I go about making the molds I was thining of grabbing fenders from the junk yard. If I make a direct mold of them it will work. Otherwise I will be doing a lot of measuring and modeling, cutting rubs and fabricating a mold from scratch. At that point, if I feel it is doable I may also make a bumper but I'd be leery of making it out of fiberglass. I'm sure it would get destroyed in a hurry. I guess if you're going to do anything you may as well do it right though. I'll look into some ideas on bumper combos too, just to see if I feel up to the workload.

If any of you know have friends in the know on aero design I would want to run plans by them. Might as well get some downforce on the nose IF I make a bumper. Would integrating some downforce and letting people add an adjustable splitter up front be enough for "tuning" airflow? (Me = too much Gran Turismo)

Chris, I like the fender on that blue rally car too. Looking at it from different angles, it is similar to the A & B fender curves. Something like that with the option of venting the rear could be very nice.

I'll see about doing some pencil sketches in the near future and posting them up. I've got a few months before I'll have time to start any fabrication so there will be plenty of time to get the design(s) refined.

As far as the 1gA-1gB issue: it sould be simple enough to incorporate a cut-away section around the front lights with mounting tabs for both so one fender can be made to fit either car. I don't know why I didn't think of that earlier or why some of the other manufacturers haven't already done it. It's so damn simple its rediculous!

 

[JOEY A]

I hope somone does this.......Make it also look good...JDM Style comes to mind..


Start looking at MR2s and 240 stuff they have pop ups and some what our style of a car

 

[roadrunner2176]

If your going to be changing your design, modifying it as you go, I would suggest making an internal mold of the fender. Either back fill it with plaster, foam, or compression foam. Just remember to line the inner fender with foil or wax paper. It might or might not want to come off. Once you have your mold, you can make your profile your flares and see just how they would look on the fender. Choose the profile mold you want, attach it to your fender mold, shave where necessary, and fiberglass the entire thing.
Fiberglass is just as good as any material out there when done right. 2 layers of fiberglass will be flexible, but wont hold up too well. 3 mesh layers followed by 2 cloth layers will work just fine. Lets be honest here, everything has its limitations, but dont blame running into a curb with your fiberglass bumper the fault of fiberglass.
As for a bumper extension, their not hard to make. Theres two ways:
1-- Either make your fender flares more of a half circle, dont stop where the body line stops, just keep on going down, and cut the body line out later.
2-- Make your fender flare, fit it, cover the area where the extension would attach to the bumper with green painters tape---must be green for easy removel--than mock up your extension. I would either use compressed foam sheats (4x8 from any home store) or a block of plaster and start shaving.

It takes time, patients, and plenty of dust masks, and it probably wouldnt hurt to have a pair of knee pads when doing the extensions. Personally I think it's easier to make a half circle mold and cut it at the body line. Patch the cut and go from there. The only problem of an extension with fender flares is that they would have to be bonded and riveted to hold, unless they were molded. Molding anything to urethane is a hassle, two substances don't always have the same expansion rates.

I've got a few pictures up here http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/steamingteabag/?start=80 I'll add some more tomarrow that show end result.

 

[eclipsh]

RoadRunner, thanks for the great tips. I will definitely keep them in mind.

This MR2 looks pretty sweet. The front bumper would have to be different since our hoods curve down and create the need for a double bump in front. Plus the need for radiator/FMIC/SMIC holes.

 

[Ludachris]

I did a fender project last spring for my 97 talon. I know the models are not the same, but I can offer some advice on making a mold, setting templates and so on. Sounds like your going to be making complete fenders, I would suggest taking a scrap fender and hacking that before using your own.

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Yes, please do share all the tips you can - in fact, why don't you post some write-ups with photos in the Tech Article section? That would be a huge help.

 

[harryb]

Here is one of the options you were trying to describe. I'll go more in depth on my views on this tomorrow because I'm tired as hell.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e337/bizzmeister/RTA02-10-0759.jpg

 

[roadrunner2176]

I did some thinking lastnight about the bumper extensions. Instead of molding them, or using rivets for attachment, what if you left blocks on the underside of the extensions so you could drill your bumper and use screws from the inner bumper out. No rivets or screw heads to be seen, and no molding.

I put up some more pictures, sorry no paint yet, and not completely sanded, but they will give you an idea.
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/steamingteabag/



Removed picture, too big, thought it would take to much time for dial up users to load.

 

[eclipsh]

Looking at the photos of the MR2 today, it could be nice to incorporate our rear wings into the rear fenders of the car like he did.

For whatever reason I can't look at photobucket images on this connection. I'll have to check them out later unless you post them directly in this thread

I had a thought on building the molds. What about heavily waxing the inside of a fender, spraying foam into it like what was suggested above and then sculpting it. Then the final product could be sliced into 1" thick pieces and traced onto plywood. I can make a mirror image skeleton mold for both sides very quickly and easily this way as well as a front bumper and rear covers. I think this will work out very well.

My other thought was in regards to the front bumper. A lot of people like the clean looks of a 2gb front. What about making something similar for a 1g with a larger fmic opening with a front lip and aero on the sides?

 

[roadrunner2176]

I would not use wax. When the foam hardens it produces heat which could cause the wax to sink to the bottom leaving you with a badly shaped fender mold. You can use plastic drop cloth, or something similiar, 3 mil minimum and double sided tape to keep it where you want it. If you use the foam, buy the mixture that you mix yourself and pour. Canned foam just wont work. Fill your mold and quickly cover it with plywood or something similiar and let the foam cure compressed. It will take a day or two and the foam will find leaks which is good. Compressed foam is easier to sand, and doesn't have large air holes.

The plywood sounds good as a final product, but I would use 1" or 2"compression foam layers until you get exactly what you want. Its alot easier to sand foam than to sand plywood, and much less resistant to moisture.

It was suggested that I should make a write-up, so in the next few days Ill get something going. If you cannot see the pictures, I could email them to you. Their too large to post here.

 

[eclipsh]

OK, so I'll skip the wax. I did get a look at your photos now that I'm home. They look good but are not the direction I want to go. I'd rather have a smoother transition if any. The Evo fender link up above is much more the style I'm after but something which reflects the styling of our cars more.

EDIT: Here is what I'm really shooting for on the front fender, but with an incorporated rear wing for the 1g rear fender. Sort of a mix between the EvoX front and that MR2 rear.

 

[eclipsh]

So yeah... I've been doing a bad job explaining exactly what I at least see as a final product.

What I want is a synthesis of these three fenders below. The smooth lines of the rounded fenders with the rear venting of the Evo X.

Yea, Nay? I guess I'm making it so it is up to me but I'd like to please a large portion of the community. I would of course have to make a front bumper, or possibly a full body kit to really pull off the setup I'm looking at. Would people be willing to pay $1k or more for a full body kit if it turns out well? (moderators please delete the last line with my apologies if it is unacceptable)

 

[mavisky]

I'd guess no. I'm not saying it's not a cool project. But 1k for a kit from a one man operation sounds nuts. Both for you if they take off and don't forget you'll probably have at least like 2-3k or so in the molds alone.

 

[roadrunner2176]

I agree with mavisky. Its one thing to fabricate a set of fender flares, but I think your looking for an actual wide body fabrication. Im not saying it can t be done, it has by many. There are 1 gen aero body kits that widen the whole vehicle. I would suggest buying one of those and adjusting it to your liking. As for the fenders, I think i see what your looking for. Without modifying your front bumper, take a 1gen fender, have it rolled, and than fiberglass from the rolled edge to the hood seam as well as the wheel well to the door seem. Depending on how much you want to go out. This will leave you with the brake ducts near the door.

 

[Ludachris]

I like where your head's at. But I doubt many 1Gers would end up paying for a full body kit. There's a reason why these cars don't have many aero options - the market just isn't there. That's why I believe that simple flares that were made to fit the contours of our fenders specifically would probably be the best option. They're cheap enough for those who would actually want them and they'd do the job well. A full body kit would be damn cool and would look the best but I don't see the 1G market being able to support such a project (sad to say). The main people you'd be attracting are road racers like Greg C - the same people who wheel and deal for free parts through vehicle sponsorships.

If you want to create those fenders and a body kit, I'd say that you should do it with the mindset that you'd be doing it for your car. Build something cheaper and easier to sell to others though.

 

[Flash]

Here is one of the options you were trying to describe. I'll go more in depth on my views on this tomorrow because I'm tired as hell.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e337/bizzmeister/RTA02-10-0759.jpg

That's just the APR widebody...

 

[eclipsh]

Well, from this feedback I think the best option will be to leave the bumper covers alone (and make my own setup for my car ) and make some bolt on front fenders and glue etc. on rear flares. I'll try and shoot for a tamed-down verson of the synthesis above that will work with stock bumper covers and mabye a front flare extension that bolts onto the front bumper.

I would actually be happy if I only sold a few dozen full body kits (enough to buy upgrades for me and pay for the fabrication). It would keep it rare and exciting. I'm sure there are at least that many racers who want a full setup and would be willing to pay for it. I have a full range of woodworking tools at my disposal so making molds will be the cheapest part for me. But I'll start with the simple flares and see about making a full kit after that.

Thank you all for the feedback I'm looking forward to making these projects a reality.

 

[almostquick]

want to see some real baller sh*t?

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616447

for the lazies:

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[kronus]

Holy Mother of Moses. WTF

 

[silver bullit]

Lookin really nice!

 

[4UH8ERS]

I don't know if thats sheetmetal or aluminum but the roll they did on that fender well looks absolutely amazing.

 

[mavisky]

Most likely sheetmetal. Sheetmetal widebody's are awesome.

Here's some pics of a friend's all sheetmetal widebody mustang.

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As you can see, you can fit some serious rubber back there with this kit.

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[Ludachris]

Damn that looks good. Maybe I'll just have to buy some sheet metal tools someday