External wastegate evo 3 big 16g

[FullyBuiltDSM]

Im planning on buying an evo 3 big 16g within the next month or so, i was looking on slowboy and i found that theres an option that i can purchase the turbo with an external wastegate. All the ones ive seen are internal. is there a reason for this? I know on the bigger turbo's everyone goes external (most come that way) but since theres an option here i have to ask what some other peoples opinions are. I would think the external wastegate is the way to go since ill be pushing the turbo pretty hard...help me out guys

 

[project_tsi]

The turbo won't come with an external gate. It will not come w/ any WG actuator or flapper system at all if you select this option. If you select "mount on manifold, SBR will weld the stock WG hole shut, so you can use an external gate mounted on you ex. manifold. If you select "mount on 02 housing" then SBR will port open that WG hole, making it larger so it flows more, and you then get an external WG mounted on your aftermarket 02 housing.

Typically an externall gate, like the ever so popular Tial 38mm goes for around $220, plus $50 for flanges, and another $50-$100 to get the flange welded on your manifold.

So basically, if you don't buy there $125 complete internal wastegate system, then you're easily looking at another $300 or more for the other parts and labor costs that go along w/ an external gate.

If you have the extra money, definetly go external, you'll never regret it, because it controls boost SOOOO much better than any internal gate sytem, but if you can't afford, then use the internal gate for $125 and just make sure you have the fuel upgrades for when it creeps!

Hope this helps, Dan

 

[MNGSX]

IMHO at the 16g size level there are more economical ways to control boost creep...

Many people on here cured boost creep with a simple larger wastegate flapper...

We have technologies like GDI, drive by wire, variable valve timing and lift... etc.. An internal gate that works is possible...

A EVO 16g should'nt need an external

I run a pretty potent and highly modified car with an internaly gated PTE56 trim.. I never run low boost so its enough wastegate for me...

 

[blackGSX2g]

I would say its unnecessary on an EVO III 16g. Mine used to creep like crazy, so I took it off and ported out the wastegate hole a bit (not the 34mm flapper mod), had Ming at TRE work on the passage to the wastegate, and I ground down the housing above the flapper arm so it opens a full 90*.

I have my current boost set at 9 psi with no creep whatsoever on a 3'' o2 eliminator turbo-back exhaust with 9:1 compression and a bunch of other boost inducing goodies.

Its all about the port work.

 

[MNGSX]

Yep..

Get the flapper and port it if you are anal...

 

[blackGSX2g]

Yep..

Get the flapper and port it if you are anal...

Or be anal and port for free and not need the flapper mod

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

I know it wont come with the actual external waste gate but will it be sealed so i could run say a manifold gate??? when i say sealed i mean where the internal wastegate would come out of.

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

and if i did get the external gate what headers would u suggest the new sbr ones. ( exactly like the evo's except with an external gate flange)?

 

[MNGSX]

Jesus freeking christ Just buy a evo 16g with a 34mm upgraded internal wastegate.....

From SBR... they have it as a $60 upgrade...

Then get the ported outlet upgrade too... $60..

So for $120 over base price you can bolt it on and run just fine with an internal gate..

You could opt for the inlet porting too... I would....

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[koroshiya_jason]

boost creep is caused by exhaust gasses seeing the path through the exhaust fans as less resistance than that of through the wastegate. porting the outlet of the internal wastegate is less beneficial than porting the inlet. if you look at the evo 16g where the exhaust enters the turbo, you'll see that the first thing it hits is metal diverting it away from the wastegate to increase spoolup. if you're staying internal, that should be what you target. enlarging the wastegate hole leaves thin sidewalls...
external wastegates can be reused should you later opt for bigger and better.
or you could always just build your setup to run ~19psi... =)

 

[spyderturbo007]

I wouldn't get the larger wastegate flapper if you ever want to run high boost with that turbo.

Read this and you will change your mind about the "upgrade":

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55813&highlight=blowing+open+info

 

[MNGSX]

I wouldn't get the larger wastegate flapper if you ever want to run high boost with that turbo.

Read this and you will change your mind about the "upgrade":

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55813&highlight=blowing+open+info

Hmm see also the post on that about the actuator with a stiffer spring... Probably part of the flapper upgrade option...

 

[blackGSX2g]

I wouldn't get the larger wastegate flapper if you ever want to run high boost with that turbo.

Read this and you will change your mind about the "upgrade":

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55813&highlight=blowing+open+info

That is exactly what led me away from the flapper mod.

I talked to Jon and Ming at TRE about that and they both recommended just porting around the wastegate path instead of the larger flapper. As I said before I decided to grind around the flapper arm so it opens up more.

I've been running 9psi just to test it and it holds rock solid all the way to redline.

Just my opinion, do what you like. I would use the larger flapper as a last resort.

 

[MNGSX]

I dont ever run low boost.... So I would if I went that small run a port job like you... Porting the inlet too....

The upgraded actuator does the trick on the ones with big gates.. With one they work just fine.

I do think all it really needs is a two port wastegate actuator becuase you can plumb the boost controller to put boost on the port of the actuator that holds it shut using boost pressure... Then when the boost control kicks in it switched to the other port on the gate...

Oh well atleast we all agree that he does'nt need an external gate.

 

[eburg2490skillz]

well if you decide to go external wastegate, i would highly recommend getting a 38mm. this will require a new o2 housing, modifications to the 16g, and make sure you buy the proper wastegate spring for the amount of boost you will be running. i have a EVOIII 16G with a 38mm tial external wastegate with a 12lbs (psi) spring. i am running on 15psi and the spring allows the wastegate to open under desired psi. you CAN replace the spring if you want to change your boost. for the turbo, you will have to remove the internal wastegate, actuator, and flapper. most ppl will get the int. wastegate welded shut, but i didnt have the money so i did what many people on here told me not to do (this only made me courious) and use a bolt to seal the flapper port. Dont do this unless you really want to and i can get into further detail on what to use and procedures. i did mine 5 months ago and have no problems, leaks, damage nothing!