EVO III swapped into a 95 talon Tsi Awd||||HELP!!!

[Tummaa]

ok so here it goes...just bought this car bout 2 weeks ago of a kid that knew just enough to get by for the time being, that being said i really have no idea how he could stand driving the car the way it is now...now i'm not saying i'm good with cars because i'm not, hence the reason i'm posting on here asking for help.....so i'll attempt to get into what i was told is on the car...

EVO III motor supposedly ordered from Japan, not really sure how those motors come in or what kind've mileage they may have on them but i do know they are a nice motor, LARGE FMIC, BOV, MAS airflow, 550 injectors, oil cooler, EVO III 16g turbo, short shifter, manuel boost control, and probally more shit that i don't know...capped off the MAS and i'm running the BOV vented straight to the atmosphere, only running about 14 PSI on the turbo, racing suspension, poly bushings and all that good shit, horrible to drive on bad roads but handles corners super nice...there's probally more shit that i'm forgetting but that can be addressed at a later time

now for the bad...picked up the car few weeks ago, drove it home, fast but didn't really seem to be running right, smelled of gas, and got like 11 mpg, so i assumed it was running rich, in all actuallity its running super lean, so it will stall out shifting between gears because its just starving out i guess...

called up a performance shop with an AWD Dyno to try and get it in for tuning, figured that would solve the problems, or at least identify them so they could be fixed

well, clutch ended up going on it about 3 days ago, pretty sure the kid threw in a used clutch off ebay just to sell the car, sucks but w/e so now i have to do the clutch before i can take it to the dyno so i need some oppinions on what clutch to get, i'm leaning towards a Spec Stage 3+ clutch, seems like its just about what i need, cars pushing around 300hp and i know i'm going to get up pushing it further...so tell me what you think on that

shop called me and told me before i could get it in for tuning i would need to buy a DSM Link, so here is another discussion waiting to happen.......the car is trying to run on a Stock Talon computer, which just can't handle the differences in an evo motor at least without being remapped....soooooo,

#1 Should i buy the DSM Link and put it on my stock ECU
#2 Look into getting a EVO III computer and having better luck with that(though i'm assuming it wouldn't work to well with the rest of the Talon
or #3 Spend the money and just get a whole new ECU of much better quality that could handle everything thats been done or will be done?

I have the money to handle one thing at a time, clutch will probally be purchased first...i don't want to spend a fortune, mainly ### i don't have one to spend but i don't want shit parts that will just get me by for the time being, hate doing things twice if i can help it....

sorry this is all so long, its my first DSM, i've wanted one for the past 7 years, finally got one and i hope i just didn't get myself in to deep...so any help would be great, and i can get pictures of whatever if needed just to help out the process...and if i missed any important info let me know, and i'll try to answer as best i can

 

[force_feed]

capped off the MAS and I'm running the BOV vented straight to the atmosphere

What exactly do you mean the MAS is capped off?

For starters, I would uncap the MAS, and hook that shit back up. Your car is running super lean because the MAS is not reading any airflow. I'm surprised the car is even running good enough to go down the street with the MAS capped off.

second, you should recirculate the bov because that can cause your car to run lean between shifts. Sometimes it can even cause your car to have a funny or erratic idle.

 

[dannyd97gst]

What exactly do you mean the MAS is capped off?

For starters, I would uncap the MAS, and hook that shit back up. Your car is running super lean because the MAS is not reading any airflow. I'm surprised the car is even running good enough to go down the street with the MAS capped off.

second, you should recirculate the bov because that can cause your car to run lean between shifts. Sometimes it can even cause your car to have a funny or erratic idle.

Word up, even something that seems as trivial as a bov can cause mega problems that also lead to mas air problems. Stock ecu is calibrated to "see" that extra recirculated boost. I vented mine before I new any better, it sounded hella cool until I came to a stop the engine started surging and then stalled.

 

[Harriz801]

For starters, I would uncap the MAS, and hook that shit back up. Your car is running super lean because the MAS is not reading any airflow. I'm surprised the car is even running good enough to go down the street with the MAS capped off.

Just like this guy said, start buy recalculating that BOV!

As for the clutch, I have found SPEC to be a very good name with the DSM's. Plenty of people run them and love their clutches. I myself have a Spec Stage 3 in my FWD and a Spec Stage 2 in my AWD.

Spec Stage 2: As for my Spec stage 2 I have no complaints what so ever with this clutch, the pedal pressure is perfect, its a street disk clutch, so no chatter and it will grab when you want it to. Although I can't say I’ve put this clutch through the all the paces yet. I have this clutch in a 2G talon I just rebuilt that only has 165 miles on it, so needless to say, I haven't quite yet "launched" the car. But I guarantee that when I do it will be just what I’m looking for.

Spec Stage 3: The stage three is an amazing clutch, it grips like no other and can hold up some massive HP numbers. I'm not running anything crazy on this clutch (a 14B and a FMIC) but I figured if I was upgrading I would get a good clutch. It seems the more that clutch heats up the more it grabs! It's just been an all around good clutch. As for the downside of the clutch, the stage three is a 6 puck clutch, this means a TON of grabbing and a little chattering. The pedal pressure isn't horrible but your calf muscle will definitely be getting a work out so to speak!

In my honest opinion SPEC has made a great name for themselves in the DSM world and I would recommend any of the clutches they offer.

Now for your ECU issues, I think swapping an Evo ECU would have a ton of headaches to go with it. As you said yourself you don’t know if it would work well with the rest of the car, which would probably end up being the case. Now I can't say that for sure because I haven't done it but search around on this site and you'll find what you’re looking for.

DSMlink is definitely the way to go though, almost everyone around this site tunes with it and swears by it. If you can go ahead and get DSMlink V3!!!!

 

[RayBan GST]

VENTING YOUR BOV MEANS ========= BIG NO once you recirculate it you will notice a big difference


check your car for leaks and do a boost leak test( do some research here and you will find how)


as for your other questions yes go for the DSM LINK

good luck and welcome to the DSM WORLD

 

[Tummaa]

"capped off the MAS and I'm running the BOV vented straight to the atmosphere"



in regards to that, the only thing that i capped is just the hose that ran from the MAS to the BOV....i understand that everyone has something different to say, but my car does run better with it this way, because i hooked it up for a few days...ultimately i think the fuel issue is in the tuning of the ECU, everything is different than it was origanally programmed for...plus my friends brother runs a pro performance shop in Texas, dealing with up to 1000hp cars and he told me to run it open, so for the moment i'll leave it as it is ya'll just might be right in the end though

 

[Harriz801]

Well with the right tuning capabilities and the right MAS you can vent your BOV's to the atmosphere.

What kind of BOV and MAS are you running.

If its a GM MAS and a translator then you would be fine venting your BOV to the atmosphere. Some people still have issues with this though, and running like this, you have to do some sort of tuning. Most people that vent their BOV's complain about running to rich.

 

[JusMX141]

now for the bad...picked up the car few weeks ago, drove it home, fast but didn't really seem to be running right, smelled of gas, and got like 11 mpg, so i assumed it was running rich, in all actuallity its running super lean, so it will stall out shifting between gears because its just starving out i guess...

Ummmm....

You can't be lean and get 11mpg while smelling of gasoline. Your car is RICH. I don't see any tuning device in your mod list, so if you're running 550cc injectors with no tuning compensation, you're undoubtedly going to run rich. You're also filling your crankcase with unburnt fuel which ruins your oil's film strength....eventually you're going to wash the bearings and cylinder walls and wipe out that "Evo III motor".

The reason it's stalling between gears is your blow off valve is vented to atmosphere.

shop called me and told me before i could get it in for tuning i would need to buy a DSM Link, so here is another discussion waiting to happen.......the car is trying to run on a Stock Talon computer, which just can't handle the differences in an evo motor at least without being remapped....

That's a line of B.S.- there are no differences in the Evo III engine aside from the injectors and intake manifold. I suppose if you're talking about the injectors not working properly with the stock ECU, that's true....but you can put a set of 450's on the Evo III motor in about 5 minutes and it will run as good as any other 7-bolt.

Direct from RRE's website:
"EVO Motors: The valve covers of the EVO 1-3 motors will be a kind of titanium color. They are the same as a US 2G motor with nothing fancy."

You don't *need* ECMLink to get a tune on your car, but apparently that's the program the shop is familiar with so they're recommending it and that's fine. You have a '95, so there's a good chance your car has an EPROM ECU which is required to run DSMLink/ECMLink, so that saves you a little bit of money right there.

If you have no other tuning device, you're truly better off just buying DSMLink / ECMLink now instead of wrapping a bunch of money into some other tuning device and changing your mind down the road.

"capped off the MAS and I'm running the BOV vented straight to the atmosphere"
....plus my friends brother runs a pro performance shop in Texas, dealing with up to 1000hp cars and he told me to run it open, so for the moment i'll leave it as it is ya'll just might be right in the end though

Good for him....apparently he's never worked on DSM's. You cannot vent the BOV to atmosphere on a car with a pre-turbo draw-thru MAS and expect it to run right- he must've missed "TooNur Skool" the day they explained that. There are about 30 new threads on here a week regarding this topic, and remarkably guys still can't seem to accept that this isn't possible.

I don't give a damn if you sit here and tell us it runs better with the valve vented- that's not how it's designed to be run. Hook up the recirc hose and get a good tune going, and you'll be rewarded with a better-running car that won't wipe out rod bearings.

Don't forget to change your oil when you get all of this figured out.

 

[Tummaa]

hey Harriz801 thanks for the input on the clutch, thats pretty much just what i needed to hear in regards to a clutch...almost positive i'm going to go for the stage 3

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Also venting a blow off valve gives you NO performance gains, and even if it were tuned for it will still lower performance. About the only thing you get from it is a louder(sometimes) sound.

 

[Tummaa]

, for the sake of arguement in here, i'll connect it again....my biggest questions were on the ECU and Clutch, money is tight at the moment so it just has to be one problem at a time

 

[knochgoon24]

Post up a picture of your engine bay. I'm sure we'll see more problems than you would notice yourself. We can even circle stuff and draw lines to show you what hoses need connected to where. Snap a bunch of pictures a get posting.

 

[Dsmj89]

I thought i was the only one that caught the odd-sounding lean problem. Smell of gas, 11mpg, symptoms of dying between shifts, that's all running rich. Recirculate your bov !
And the evo3 motor is the exact same motor found on our cars, minus the turbo,exh mani,o2, injectors and intake mani.

 

[Tummaa]

ok, since we're still on the BOV issue...i ran it about 3-4 days with it disconnected, took it to a shop and they suggested connecting it and it should run better....tried that, not so much, so after another 3-4 days of driving it that way i disconnected it again and low and behold it was running slightly better, though in both situations it will still randomly stall out...now, there is a air/fuel ratio gage in the car, how accurate it may be i'm not completely sure, it reads lean/stoich/rich, not once has the lights ever hit rich, not during acceleration or decceleration, letting off the gas will make the gage jump up to stoich but never rich...soooooooo once i can get the money for a DSM Link annnnd a Clutch, hopefully my car will be ready for the dyno and some serious tuning which at that time the issue with the BOV will be readily addressed

 

[Dsmj89]

Just cause the light never reaches rich doesn't mean it's not running that way, i have experienced in 2 of my friend'S DSM their wideband gauge go bad. I would suggest you double-check your wideband is correctly hooked up and/or your sensor is good. Also just cause you connected your recirc tube on and back off and now it's running better doesn't justify you keeping it off.
If you don't care about performance and the way your car drives and behaves, then by all means vent and suffer the problems that are soon to arise later on from the result of venting.

 

[Tummaa]

just took some pictures, hopefully get them uploaded at some point tomorrow

 

[HIGH_PSI_GST]

When i bought my DSM the owner before me had the TurboXS RFL venting to the atmosphere. If anyone knows what i'm talking about they know that its SUPER loud. I thought it was sweet when i first drove it home ! Well to make a long story short i ended up cutting the bell and custom made a recirculation hose. The car runs 100% better. That tiny bit of air is needed for the computer to read and calculate air/fuel mixtures. So to everyone blowing off to the atmosphere.....RECIRCULATE!!!! Please. Do it for your car. He/She will appreciate it

 

[treckin]

I didnt see anybody mention it, but the Evo3 is necessarily different than the USDM ones; the JDM motors have the 'Hurricane' intake manifold, which is similar to Mazda's VRIS. It has a dual-runner design, with butterfly actuated top-end action. It also is tuned differently (Diff fuel maps for larger FP and injectors, code for intake mani). Additionally, the Evo3 ECU will be missing all of the code to run the emissions gear.

GL

 

[JusMX141]

I didnt see anybody mention it, but the Evo3 is necessarily different than the USDM ones; the JDM motors have the 'Hurricane' intake manifold, which is similar to Mazda's VRIS. It has a dual-runner design, with butterfly actuated top-end action.

The Evo III intake manifold is not the Cyclone manifold.

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