2G Evo 3 drivetrain in 2g

[604CruisinCroat]

Will the evo 3 tranny and rear diff work in a 2g ?

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Hmm no I dont think thats right...

 

[Black95TSIawd]

If you get the matching transfercase, you should be good I would think.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Cool. Anybody know where I can find evo 3 drivetrain parts ?

 

[TehRiceBandit]

Japan

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Japan

Thanks tips

 

[okm12346]

You have to swap the front diff ring gear from a 2g to use it with 2g transfer case and rear diff. Or get Evo 3 transmission and a transfer case and swap out the 2g rear diff ring gear with the evo 3 one.

Other than that the mounting brackets are the same.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

You have to swap the front diff ring gear from a 2g to use it with 2g transfer case and rear diff. Or get Evo 3 transmission and a transfer case and swap out the 2g rear diff ring gear with the evo 3 one.

Other than that the mounting brackets are the same.

Thanks !

 

[CrackedDSM]

If you're going Evo 3 transmission, just take the extra expense to go with the Evo 3 TC and add in the entire Evo 3 rear diff. Someone else can confirm or deny, but I believe they're a better LSD rear than our DSM units are. I don't THINK they're as good as the Evo 4-9 clutch style LSD that people are loving, but they're better than our viscous units.


Anyone confirm/deny?

 

[604CruisinCroat]

If you're going Evo 3 transmission, just take the extra expense to go with the Evo 3 TC and add in the entire Evo 3 rear diff. Someone else can confirm or deny, but I believe they're a better LSD rear than our DSM units are. I don't THINK they're as good as the Evo 4-9 clutch style LSD that people are loving, but they're better than our viscous units.


Anyone confirm/deny?

You are right. Its hard to find the parts though !!!

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Lots of misinformation in this thread.
The Evo 1-3 transmission will work if you have the matching Evo transfer case and 3.909 rear diff. It will bolt up just fine to a 2g, using 2g AWD clutch and flywheel. The rear diff from the Evo 1-3 is the same clutch-type diff as the 4-9 non-AYC clutch-type diff (with the exception of the Evo 1 GSR, which got the lame viscous rear diff). Transmissions are getting extremely rare, E3 especially (though I would give up the E3's double synchro gears for the E1's better ratios and stronger shift forks). The DSM might be able to use the shorter E3 gearing due to the increased weight. On rare occasions, early Evos get parted out here in Canada, but transmissions almost always have something wrong with them, and they go quick and for big bucks. There's really no cheap and good way of doing it. Your best bet is to call a JDM parts importer and open your wallet, but be sure you run the part numbers on the trans to make sure you're not buying something from a Galant or RVR. Bonus points if you get the rare optional front LSD.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Lots of misinformation in this thread.
The Evo 1-3 transmission will work if you have the matching Evo transfer case and 3.909 rear diff. It will bolt up just fine to a 2g, using 2g AWD clutch and flywheel. The rear diff from the Evo 1-3 is the same clutch-type diff as the 4-9 non-AYC clutch-type diff (with the exception of the Evo 1 GSR, which got the lame viscous rear diff). Transmissions are getting extremely rare, E3 especially (though I would give up the E3's double synchro gears for the E1's better ratios and stronger shift forks). The DSM might be able to use the shorter E3 gearing due to the increased weight. On rare occasions, early Evos get parted out here in Canada, but transmissions almost always have something wrong with them, and they go quick and for big bucks. There's really no cheap and good way of doing it. Your best bet is to call a JDM parts importer and open your wallet, but be sure you run the part numbers on the trans to make sure you're not buying something from a Galant or RVR. Bonus points if you get the rare optional front LSD.

Thanks that was really helpful. I have a chance to buy an Evo 2 tranny, tcase and rear diff. Should I do that or just wait for Evo 3 parts to pop up ?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The 2 stuff is good, go with it if you found it. The only advantage the 3 has over the 2 is the synchros, not worth waiting for. Pick your axles carefully and you're good to go.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

The 2 stuff is good, go with it if you found it. The only advantage the 3 has over the 2 is the synchros, not worth waiting for. Pick your axles carefully and you're good to go.

Cool. Btw, what axles do I use ?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The thread "Let's talk diffs" in Road Race/AutoX has everything you need to know about rear axles. For the front axles, use stock axles unless you do have the front viscous LSD, then you'll need the super rare LSD-specific axle joint to go with it. If the seller doesn't have it, send me a message and I'll consider parting with my extra LSD axle.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

The thread "Let's talk diffs" in Road Race/AutoX has everything you need to know about rear axles. For the front axles, use stock axles unless you do have the front viscous LSD, then you'll need the super rare LSD-specific axle joint to go with it. If the seller doesn't have it, send me a message and I'll consider parting with my extra LSD axle.

Sounds good.

 

[94awdcoupe]

still lots of misinformation in this thread. even from the guy in canada. evo 2 trans is same as evo 3. and evo 1-3 diff is not direct fit into 2g. all the 4g63 rear ends are different. here are the ones I have had here and what I can tell you about them. interior dimensions of housings are all the same. so you can switch ring and pinion or lsd setups from any of them. however the exterior housings and how the mounts mount are all different. non of them interchange.
1g/galant vr4
2g
evo 1-3
evo 4-9
expo awd
all use a different way to mount the diff in front. rear housings use same 2-3 bolt pattern. so externally the housings are different.

so to install and run evo 1-3 trans in 2g you need to use 3.9 ring and pinion installed in the 2g diff.
evo 1 trans uses 1.090 transfer
evo2/3 uses 1.074 transfer
95/96 2g uses 1.090
98/99 2g uses 1.074

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

still lots of misinformation in this thread. even from the guy in canada. evo 2 trans is same as evo 3. and evo 1-3 diff is not direct fit into 2g. all the 4g63 rear ends are different. here are the ones I have had here and what I can tell you about them. interior dimensions of housings are all the same. so you can switch ring and pinion or lsd setups from any of them. however the exterior housings and how the mounts mount are all different. non of them interchange.
1g/galant vr4
2g
evo 1-3
evo 4-9
expo awd
all use a different way to mount the diff in front. rear housings use same 2-3 bolt pattern. so externally the housings are different.

so to install and run evo 1-3 trans in 2g you need to use 3.9 ring and pinion installed in the 2g diff.
evo 1 trans uses 1.090 transfer
evo2/3 uses 1.074 transfer
95/96 2g uses 1.090
98/99 2g uses 1.074

The Evo 2 trans is NOT the same as Evo 3, it's closer to the Evo 1 and can be interchanged with the Evo 1, keeping the same transfer case. The front final drive is different E2 to E3 - 4.26 on the E2 vs 4.20 on the E3. If you run the E2 trans on the E3 transfer case or vice versa, you'll destroy things. Further, 3rd and 4th gear has the same ratio E2 to E3, but Evo 3 is double synchro and has a different hub/slider assembly than the Evo 2.

By "rear ends" being the same, I meant the carrier itself, not the whole pumpkin. An Evo 1-9 carrier drop into any Evo 1-9 or DSM with the appropriate axle cups and ratios. We said the same thing, basically.

Do you have a source for the front diffs being "mounted" differently, or do you mean the transmission mounts differently? Any open or plated front diff should interchange in Evo 1-3, DSM FWD and AWD as long as the ratios are the same, but that's no issue if you're swapping the diff unit itself into a car that already operates. The E1-E3 front viscous LSD needs the specific crown wheel and axle, and rear 3.909 ratio to match, it won't work any other way.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I have owned two evo 2 transmissions. 3 evo 1 and one evo 3. the evo 2 transmssions I have are identical to evo 3. they both have double syncro 3/4 gears. same style shift forks.

I ran the wrong ratio tcase on my evo1 for the first ten years of ownership. because of posts like yours. I should have been counting teeth. the wrong ratio doesnt do as much as you think. I did the math and at 60mph the front and rear axles would be 1 mph different speed. so center diff would be spinning all the time that small difference. the viscous opposing this difference. I estimate the car gets 2-3mpg worse mileage. as its like a small brake drag. some rally guys run the wrong diff on purpose for traction purposes.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Hm, you're right on the double synchro part. Just checked ASA, every Evo 2 seems to have the MD747255 synchros.

I don't see your reasoning on the transfer case though. Are you advocating mis-matching ratios? "Not much of a difference" is still a difference that will burn out the center viscous coupler or break transfer cases, just like running different tire sizes. Rally guys repair and rebuild frequently and can afford to wear things out if it means attaining certain driving characteristics. It's pointless on a street car.

ASA confirms that the Evo 1 and 2 have 64-tooth crown wheels (MD743362) with 15-tooth pinions, or 4.266 ratio.
The Evo 3 has a 63-tooth crown wheel (MD744332) with 15-tooth pinions, or 4.200 ratio.
ASA confirms that the Evo 1 and 2 got transfer case MD748122 (24/22 = 1.909) and Evo 3 got MD748833 (29/27, 1.074).

Doing the math for rear final drive of 3.909 x transfer case ratio,
So, 3.909 *(24/22) = 4.26 - same as the Evo 1 and 2's 4.26 front crown wheel
3.909 * (29/27) = 4.198 (round up to 4.2) - same as the Evo 3's front crown wheel.

Are you saying Mitsubishi got something wrong?

Ok, I'm seeing some funky stuff here on ASA. All Evo 1s and 2s have the 64-tooth crown wheel and Evo 3 63, I tried many VINs.

For transfer case assembly part numbers:
Evo 1 RS (WQFE/WQYE) - MD758206 - my VIN comes up as this, it has LSD
Evo 1 GSR (WQGE/WQWE) - MD747956
Evo 2 RS (WPYE/WPFE) - MD748122
Evo 2 GSR (WPGE/WPWE) - MD748121
Evo 3 RS (UPYE/UPFE) - MD748833
Evo 3 GSR (UPGE/UPWE) - MD748832


Transfer gear part numbers:
Evo 1 RS (WQFE/WQYE) - MD741282 superseded to MD757863
Evo 1 GSR - (WQGE/WQWE) - MD739870 superseded to MD756514
Evo 2 RS (WPYE/WPFE) - MD757863
Evo 2 GSR (WPGE/WPWE) - MD756514
Evo 3 RS (UPYE/UPFE) - MD756628
Evo 3 GSR (UPGE/UPWE) - MD756623

I don't know why the Evo 1's numbers were superseded to Evo 2 here. Logically it would be the same part but with a modification or improvement. I also don't know why GSR and RS would have different transfer cases and gear part numbers, but I highly, highly doubt they would intentionally mismatch ratios.

 

[94awdcoupe]

what I am saying is the first ten years of owning my evo1 I was running a 1.074 tcase when it should have had 1.090. the car didnt break anything because of this mismatch. nothing over heats , nothing breaks. car was making 350-450wtq the entire time. always had good tires. a lot of people like to theorize that stuff is bad. I lived it by mistake (because there is so much bad info posted about evo 1-3 parts)

I currently will NEVER again rely on any info about what should be in these transmissions. I dont have time to go around correcting it all. Its best to just count teeth to be sure of what you have.

i counted teeth for the evo2 build last year. it uses ev03 ratios. like I said it uses the 1.074 tcase. so your ASA info is wrong. car gets about 5-6mpg better mileage now. but I also switched to new front wheel bearings and low drag calipers. so the viscous dragging doesnt account for the whole 5-6mpg. maybe 2-3.

 

[twicks69]

So what things need clarification still? I know every variation of these transmissions and what will/won't work in a DSM.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

I can't figure it out either. To be honest, 94awdcoupe's car sounds like someone put the wrong transfer case in before he bought it, but I could be wrong.

 

[94awdcoupe]

yes the car came with the 1.074 case. fairly low 95k km on car. you wouldnt suspect the tcase had been replaced. car was stock except for exhaust. at the time on the internet back in 2002 the posts i found on the subject stated the evo 1-3 used the 1.074 case. and I specifically remember that because at that time 1.090 cases were 100 bucks, and 1.074 cases were bringing 300.

 

[twicks69]

Well, there are two variations of final drive (63 and 64 tooth ring gear) at the transmission and two matching transfer cases (1.074 and 1.090 ratio). I have seen 63 and 64 tooth front diff ring gears in Evo 1 and 2's and the Evo 3 transmission has a 63 tooth front diff ring gear. The Evo 1/2/3 output pinion shaft is the same for all of the transmissions, though the super duper early Evo 1 ones had a slightly different profile and need to use a matching ring gear as well as a different profile gearset; the later Evo 1-3 had a interchangeable profile of the gear teeth and matching intermediate shafts and center differentials. The super early Evo 1's had a profile like the 1990 DSM gearsets with a unique input shaft with a 3rd gear needle bearing spacer like the 90 DSM input shafts, 1/2/3/4/5 gears, 90 style intermediate shaft and center diff housing. Unique to the Evo 1, it had the tallest available 1st / 2nd gear ratio and matching input shaft, it was 2.571 1st gear and 1.600 2nd gear ratios; 3rd/4th/5th were the same ratio as the Evo 2/3. As well, because of the larger 1st gear, you need to use the evo 1 reverse idler gear lever that has the proper curvature to clear the gear. The viscous front LSD differentials also had a unique ring gear bolt pattern spacing and bore diameter, and are only usable with a viscous front diff (and matching LSD axle cup); you cannot use a standard DSM or Evo 1/2/3 clutch type or open front diff ring gear on the viscous front diff.

The super early Evo 1 trans I have seen one with a 63-tooth front diff ring gear, but the rest were 64 tooth front diff ring gears.
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD743362
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD743363
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD744332
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD744333
All of the ring gears listed above use MD743361 15-tooth output pinion shaft, which is smaller in diameter than the USDM stuff to make the Evo ratios.

The Evo 1 and early 2's had a ratio of 4.26 x 1.275 primary tooth ratio at the transmission (5.435 ratio transmission) then the 1.090 transfer case and 3.909 ratio rear differential.

The late Evo 2 and Evo 3's had a ratio of 4.20 x 1.275 primary tooth ratio at the transmission (5.355 ratio transmission), then a 1.074 transfer case and 3.909 ratio rear differential.

For reference, 1990-1996 DSM tcases were 1.090 ratio, 1997-1999 DSM tcases were 1.094 ratio.


W5M33-2-WQYE, 10/1992-11/1993 build date, Lancer Evo 1 RS, open front diff (MD971900), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WQFE, 10/1992-11/1993 build date, Lancer Evo 1 RS, clutch type lsd front diff (MD971901), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WQGE, 10/1992-11/1993 build date, Lancer Evo 1 GSR, open front diff (MD971898) , 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WQWE, 10/1992-11/1993 build date, 92-93 Lancer Evo 1 GSR, viscous front LSD (MD971899), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD743362
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD743363

W5M33-2-WPYE, 12/1993-02/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 RS, open front diff (MD972784), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPFE, 12/1993-02/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 RS, clutch type front LSD (MD972785), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPYE, 03/1994-08/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 RS, open front diff (MD973697), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPFE, 03/1994-08/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 RS, clutch type front LSD (MD973698), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPGE, 12/1993-02/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 GSR, open front diff (MD972782), 64-tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPWE, 12/1993-02/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 GSR, A90 viscous front LSD (MD972783), 64 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.090 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPGE, 03/1994-08/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 GSR, open front diff (MD973695), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-WPWE, 03/1994-08/1994 build date, Lancer Evo 2 GSR, A90 viscous front LSD (MD973696), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD743362
Evo 1/2 64-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD743363
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD744332
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD744333

W5M33-2-UPYE, 09/1994-08/1995 build date, Lancer Evo 3 RS, open front diff (MD974293), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-UPFE, 09/1994-08/1995 build date, Lancer Evo 3 RS, clutch type front LSD (MD974294), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-UPGE, 09/1994-08/1995 build date, Lancer Evo 3 GSR, open front diff (MD974291), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
W5M33-2-UPWE, 09/1994-08/1995 build date, Lancer Evo 3 GSR, A90 viscous front LSD (MD974292), 63 tooth front diff ring gear, 1.074 ratio tcase
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear MD744332
Evo 2/3 63-Tooth Front Diff Ring Gear A90 Viscous MD744333


All Evo 1/2/3's had clutch type rear differentials, which are the same guts as Evo 4-9 clutch type rear diffs and parts are interchangeable. All Evo 1/2/3's are 3.909 rear differential ring and pinion ratio.