ECU+ vs DSMLink

[Splitpi]

I would like to hear peoples oppinions on ECU+ over DSMLink. I have read alot about DSMLink and it sounds great, but ECU+ Seems like a more cost effective approach for a midgrade tuner and has most of the same features. Anyone have experience with ECU+ or both?

 

[dsm-onster]

Thats the one thing cool about ecu+ is if there is something the people demand for they add it. Like ecu+ is adding the strudder box for rpm launches, boost controler, antilag.

Lets see him control deadtime tuning and improve his injector compensation to control +1200cc injectors with PROPER timing advance... These are neccesary for a street driven high horsepower car... DSMLink is on another level...

Also the guy who made it is trying to say that no other product can match its data logging capabilities.

I'm sure he does .

Its cool that for no extra charge they will keep giving you upgrades.

That's good but until he upgrades the injector control, and the sensor and solenoid control and provide no-lift-to-shift and can raise your revlimit, plus a mass of other upgrades; DSMLink is still on another level.

Jay, this piggyback is perhaps the most comprehensive and user friendly one you can buy for a DSM. But it just won't cut it for some of us now... And for the future goals of alot of us. It is just too expensive to buy it and then ditch it for better engine control.

 

[Vallary99]

Maybe this link will help you some:
http://www.4g63hp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3327

 

[dsm-onster]

Maybe this link will help you some:
http://www.4g63hp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3327

Great! so ECU+ is a good tuning solution for an evo ecu. . .

 

[JayRolla]

Yes because its the only cheap piggy back that will work for the evo's. Im still going to go with the safc2 untill I can afford AEM. Everyone thinks im crazy but ive talked to 3 dyno shops and they all say they can get more power out of aem than dsmlink. I know a lot of you wont agree with me but thats what im going to do. Plus everyone says its so hard to tune but my mechanic says its not as difficult as people make it sound, he says its as easy as a click of a mouse. You just might have to study it for a minute. Plus im going to have the dyno shop tune my car and they said they can tune it just as fast as dsmlink so I wont have to worry about paying extra money for tuning, because everyone says its so hard.

 

[Tom N]

Yes because its the only cheap piggy back that will work for the evo's. Im still going to go with the safc2 untill I can afford AEM. Everyone thinks im crazy but ive talked to 3 dyno shops and they all say they can get more power out of aem than dsmlink. I know a lot of you wont agree with me but thats what im going to do. Plus everyone says its so hard to tune but my mechanic says its not as difficult as people make it sound, he says its as easy as a click of a mouse. You just might have to study it for a minute. Plus im going to have the dyno shop tune my car and they said they can tune it just as fast as dsmlink so I wont have to worry about paying extra money for tuning, because everyone says its so hard.

No one who knows what they are talking about will say that the aem cant make more power than a dsmlink.
I am not sure where you are hearing that a dsmlink will make more power than a aem but i am sure most here know thats just not true.
DSMlink is a awesome product for the average tuner but its not a stand alone.

 

[JayRolla]

No one who knows what they are talking about will say that the aem cant make more power than a dsmlink.
I am not sure where you are hearing that a dsmlink will make more power than a aem but i am sure most here know thats just not true.
DSMlink is a awesome product for the average tuner but its not a stand alone.

Im saying with two identical cars, same mods you can make more power with aem than the dsmlink if you installed both on the cars. I never meant to say dsmlink would make more power just that people say they work about the same, and that there is no reason to pay for aem when dsmlink works just as good.

 

[sadsm]

How did this turn into a DSM Link vs AEM? This was a ECU + vs DSM Link thread, and the link that was posted was a year ago. He has since worked out all the bugs.

 

[dsm-onster]

No one who knows what they are talking about will say that the aem cant make more power than a dsmlink.
I am not sure where you are hearing that a dsmlink will make more power than a aem but i am sure most here know thats just not true.
DSMlink is a awesome product for the average tuner but its not a stand alone.

I'll stand up and say this! show me where a 50-trim or less setup will yield more power w/ AEM EMS vs. dsmlink... Start a new thread and post a link here. Prove it!

EMS will handle more power but DSMLink is just as good up to the point that it is no longer enough. Where is that? What horsepower number is that? I don't know. Unless you get to that point, you've saved $800. EMS is twice as much. EMS is for Shep.

 

[larsrya8]

The reason the Evo guys use ECU+ is because there isn't an "EVOLink" option for them. If there was and it was the same price as DSMLink, you wouldn't see as many ECU+ users.

There are a lot of things that are just a "click of the mouse." That is actually how I'd describe DSMLink, not AEM.

I hope your mechanic didn't say that all you had to do was load up the base maps into the EMS and then just fine tune from there. When I was reading about the AEM EMS I heard that the base maps suck. Just getting the car to idle properly was a very difficult task, and many never did get their car running quite right. But if you're going to have the dyno people tune it, and they know what they're doing, then you should be fine. That's just a lot of money that I wouldn't want to spend just to squeeze that last few horsepower out of the setup.

I ask again... What are your goals with your setup? And how does AEM achieve these goals where DSMLink doesn't? Not to call you out, but I do want to know what reasoning you've used to justify spending $1400+ for the EMS (more if you decide you need all their sensors) when DSMLink is $600, easier to use, and both will yield very similar gains for your current setup.

 

[larsrya8]

How did this turn into a DSM Link vs AEM? This was a ECU + vs DSM Link thread, and the link that was posted was a year ago. He has since worked out all the bugs.

This turned into DSMLink vs. AEM when the orignal poster decided he didn't want to get ECU+ and started asking about AEM. That's how these things happen.

 

[JayRolla]

I didnt mean to turn this into an aem vs dsmlink. Just wanted some opinions. I wouldnt beable to prove anything except when I get dynoed ill try to see if the dyno shop there can prove it. They said if I went with AEM they could get more out of my than if I went with dsmlink. I have an evo16g. They were not trying to sell me anything just wanted to make tuning easier on them(i dont know how everyone says its so hard to use) and they could get more out of my car. They said it would be worth the extra cash. And after looking for an eprom that sell for crazy prices I might as well save up the extra 600 or so for it because one day I do want to have 550+whp. I just wish I picked up an eprom when they where selling 50-100 bucks.

 

[Splitpi]

Nah... I was mainly concerned on midlevel tuning. I never mentioned EMS. At the midgrade that leaves either DSMLink or ECU+ in my mind and at the price point. But it has been interesting to read everyone's oppinions, which is what I asked for.

 

[larsrya8]

Nah... I was mainly concerned on midlevel tuning. I never mentioned EMS. At the midgrade that leaves either DSMLink or ECU+ in my mind and at the price point. But it has been interesting to read everyone's oppinions, which is what I asked for.

Oh sorry! I assumed JayRolla was the OP.. that's what I get for not checking.

 

[Tom N]

I'll stand up and say this! show me where a 50-trim or less setup will yield more power w/ AEM EMS vs. dsmlink... Start a new thread and post a link here. Prove it!

EMS will handle more power but DSMLink is just as good up to the point that it is no longer enough. Where is that? What horsepower number is that? I don't know. Unless you get to that point, you've saved $800. EMS is twice as much. EMS is for Shep.

I dont feel the need to prove anything to you.
If you want to believe that dsmlink will net you the same hp as a aem will on the same car go ahead.
DSMlink is a great product but you are still fighting the stock ecu as well as still utilizing some sort of mas.
You just can fine tune a car to the point of perfection with a dsmlink as you can with a aem. If you dont understand the difference between what you can do with the two I am not sure what to tell you.
I have both and the aem is just a step above. It does cost more and isnt for everyone. Which is why I said in my first post "as far as I`m conserned there are only two choices here. AEM and DSM link."

 

[dsm-onster]

I didnt mean to turn this into an aem vs dsmlink. Just wanted some opinions. I wouldnt beable to prove anything except when I get dynoed ill try to see if the dyno shop there can prove it. They said if I went with AEM they could get more out of my than if I went with dsmlink. I have an evo16g. They were not trying to sell me anything just wanted to make tuning easier on them(i dont know how everyone says its so hard to use) and they could get more out of my car. They said it would be worth the extra cash. And after looking for an eprom that sell for crazy prices I might as well save up the extra 600 or so for it because one day I do want to have 550+whp. I just wish I picked up an eprom when they where selling 50-100 bucks.

DSMLink is designed for ametures to tune. In fact I taught my wife to tune a 1g w/ dsmlink in an afternoon. By the evening she was holding the computer in the passenger seat and monitoring my runs and tweeking them while i was getting a pepsi at a gas station.

I doubt that it would be easier w/ EMS, profesional or not, if your goal is sub-700whp or so.

I am sure he was trying to sell you something... unless he had never seen the dsmlink plat form and saw how easy it is to navigate and use. Just drop in the chip tune the deadtime and global. And let the ecu handle all of closed loop for you like the factory intended. Then go I an tweak open loop. Done.

It is not hard to tune w/ ems when you know what you are doing (i.e. your dyno shop). They can squease x amount of more power from your setup. That's great. But how much more did you pay for that x amount of horsepowoer... What else could you have bought that extra money that would have increase your 1/4 mile times?

 

[dsm-onster]

90tsiawd, I wasn't flaming or pecking a fight. . .

I dont feel the need to prove anything to you.

No, you don't you don't have to say that ems will yield much more horsepower on a midsised turbo setup either. But you did.

If you want to believe that dsmlink will net you the same hp as a aem will on the same car go ahead.

Speed density does a great job of tuning through out the spool up phase. Great. But DSMLink can still monitor and control 700 hp just fine... It does great and is half the price . The level of perfection offered by EMS is not neccesary with the horsepower numbers I suggest DSMLink is fine to control. It is "perfect enough". Why get EMS if you can get something else for half the price and will do just fine for that kind of goal?...

DSMlink is a great product but you are still fighting the stock ecu as well as still utilizing some sort of mas.

Other than the maf what part of the stock ecu am I still fighting? I'm getting it on my side. The stock way a dsm ecu looks at air fuel and ingition timing is just fine for the level I was suggesting DSMLink to be used for... DSMLink is for the guy who has a HP goal in between
the control a piggy back offers and the control EMS offers... Russ Coxe ran a 9.7 @ over 140 mph. If you have a higher goal, then certainly EMS is for you. DSMLink is great for anyone running low 12's to mid 9's.

You just can fine tune a car to the point of perfection with a dsmlink as you can with a aem. If you dont understand the difference between what you can do with the two I am not sure what to tell you.

Get the more expensive item for a goal that will surpass what DSMLink can control. What's so hard to understand here. Any glitch, tuning discrepancy or otherwize negative effect of using dsmlink at up to the 700 hp level or so is nothing that will damage that engine nor significantly detract from its output.

I have both and the aem is just a step above. It does cost more and isnt for everyone.

You are right. It is not for everyone. It is for people that need the control that DSMLink does not deliver.

Which is why I said in my first post "as far as I`m conserned there are only two choices here. AEM and DSM link."

You are right. If you want more power than what DSMLink can control then EMS is the best option.

Why get dsmlink if you're never going over 300 horsepower? Safc or maft is much cheaper and does superb at that level.

Yes, I know AEM EMS is on a different level. That is why I said "50-trim or less" I probably can include the 60-1, 56-trim, gt37r in that. But in transtioning between the need of one engine management for the need of another is always grey.

 

[JayRolla]

The dyno shop doesnt even sell AEM EMS, so how where they selling me something and yes they have tuned many cars with dsmlink, aem, haltech, ecu+, greddy emanage and anything else you can think of.
www.macautosport.com is the shop and they do know what they are talking about. When I was there I watched them tune an automatic supra to 700whp using only a safc2 to tune with. The guy that actually does the tuning said he would just go with a safc.

 

[a_scobel]

I went with ECU+..haven't tried it yet though.

As long as I don't use DSMLink after using ECU+, & see 'how much easier DSMLink is to use', I'll be fine.

 

[dsm-onster]

I went with ECU+..haven't tried it yet though.

As long as I don't use DSMLink after using ECU+, & see 'how much easier DSMLink is to use', I'll be fine.

It's not just the ease of use. So yea as lng as you don't see the need or desire to raise your revlimit, need larger than 750cc injectors or want to shave several tenths off your 1/4 mile times w/ nlts, ECU+ is great! It really is one of the best piggy backs out there for the DSM.

 

[dsm-onster]

The dyno shop doesnt even sell AEM EMS, so how where they selling me something and yes they have tuned many cars with dsmlink, aem, haltech, ecu+, greddy emanage and anything else you can think of.
www.macautosport.com is the shop and they do know what they are talking about. When I was there I watched them tune an automatic supra to 700whp using only a safc2 to tune with. The guy that actually does the tuning said he would just go with a safc.

Alright. I think you should do what your dyno shop recommends. It's not my money. BTW, its not theirs either... Have you gotten a second opinion by another reputable dyno shop?

 

[JayRolla]

Ive talked to a few people about it and no i havnt talked to another dyno shop. Im looking to make a 550+whp motor one day when I kill my evo turbo. I also want to run a 50 shot. From what ive researched the AEM would be a better choice in the long run when I build my stroker beast. If dsmlink is just as good as the aem at these horse power number's maybe I will think about getting dsmlink. I still have a lot of time before I choose.

 

[larsrya8]

In that case I recommend reading up extensively on both systems (like I did). Search through this forum and others to see how other's are doing with DSMLink and AEM. Find people running the power level you hope to reach and see what tuning system they are using. See if you can find an instruction manual for both systems. DSMLink's manual is available on their website... I wasn't able to find one for AEM, but you can search through the AEM forums without having to log in.

I would hate to invest the money into AEM only to realize that it's over my head. Having to go the the dyno to get it tuned by the professionals whenever you want to change something can get really expensive. And don't let the fact that you don't have an EPROM ECU stop you from getting DSMLink. There are plenty of DSMs in junkyards with EPROM ECUs, as well as the ones you can find in the classifieds. You don't need to shell out $400 for a rebuilt and socketed ECU from ffwdconnection.

 

[Tom N]

Dsm-onster:

I think we are arguing the same point but from different angles.
I agree a aem makes no sense on a 300hp car.
Yes you can yeild more power from a aem than a dsm link regaurdless of your set up.
But I also agree that the cost of a ems does not really justify the small gains you may see on the average setup most peole have. The dsmlink was all I felt I needed with my old setup. And it worked great. Got me a 11.4 on a 16g.

All I was saying was "all parts other being equal" a aem car will net a bit more hp than a dsmlink car. Never said the price was justified for all setups.

 

[Tom N]

In that case I recommend reading up extensively on both systems (like I did). Search through this forum and others to see how other's are doing with DSMLink and AEM. Find people running the power level you hope to reach and see what tuning system they are using. See if you can find an instruction manual for both systems. DSMLink's manual is available on their website... I wasn't able to find one for AEM, but you can search through the AEM forums without having to log in.

I would hate to invest the money into AEM only to realize that it's over my head. Having to go the the dyno to get it tuned by the professionals whenever you want to change something can get really expensive. And don't let the fact that you don't have an EPROM ECU stop you from getting DSMLink. There are plenty of DSMs in junkyards with EPROM ECUs, as well as the ones you can find in the classifieds. You don't need to shell out $400 for a rebuilt and socketed ECU from ffwdconnection.

You can down load manuals and stuff from the aem board.
The aem is not for novice tuners in any way. You have to program everything.
Alot of people buy the aem and just end up getting frustrated with it and selling it.
If you (or anyone else) doesnt fell like your a confident tuner then get the dsmlink.
Its very user friendly and works great.

 

[dsm-onster]

Dsm-onster:

I think we are arguing the same point but from different angles.
I agree a aem makes no sense on a 300hp car.
Yes you can yeild more power from a aem than a dsm link regaurdless of your set up.
But I also agree that the cost of a ems does not really justify the small gains you may see on the average setup most peole have. The dsmlink was all I felt I needed with my old setup. And it worked great. Got me a 11.4 on a 16g.

All I was saying was "all parts other being equal" a aem car will net a bit more hp than a dsmlink car. Never said the price was justified for all setups.

That's cool. I just saw that we were too... Did you run your 11.4 w/ EMS? That would make a strong point for EMS. As Shape hit 11.8 weighing 3350 lbs and w/ the same turbo w/ DSMlink... if his weigh in was the same as yours, that would still only account for a couple of tenths...