DVDT Fab FLP Intake Manifold

[95GreenGSX]

I had a dvdt manifold and it was junk. I dont care if you have the money or are building a 8 second car the manifolds he makes sucks point blank. It wouldent even hold 8psi, and no he whould not answer my emails so yes i did contact him. 700 doller pos!

Dude, its not $ 700, its more like $1200 and when you actually see the real SMIM in person, you'll be in awe. Also, my friends dv/dt smim holds 40psi+ perfectally fine.


you =

 

[91-gsx]

That's idiotic. . . O K I said it. . ." Waste of alberts time" . . . ? Einstein, right? Not just any Albert here right?

Good job insuring this a forum we're talking about his products on. wouldn't want to spoil the epic tesla-like glory of the products he offers. Were only talking about the flow into the heads we spend so much time around.

Nothing against anybody here, but this is just too damn funny!!!

 

[Weapon-X]

Personally, if I had a "Superior" product and I knew it was "Superior" I would make sure the word got out for sure..................And accompanied by that would be an un-biased boatload of information to back that up.

Basically what I'm saying is if Albert truely does "know" that he has something the rest of the market does not, Then I would throw it in there face with proof to back it up.

Then as the competition stands there drooling and looking silly, He could say "I told you so".

Either way I will remain happy with my JMF SMIM.

Trust me, I'm all for spending my money on my hobby. I have a lot wrapped up into my vehicles, motorcycles included............BUT.............. There better be something God Damned substantial out there to convince me that $1200- is worth it for a SMIM.................... regardless of who the hell is designing and producing it.

 

[TSimage]

Why do people car what other people have. Is this seriously a thread about people whining about what amount of money another guy is willing to spend for a production he feels is worth it. Its like girls crying over shoes because one chick can't afford the other they get in a pissing contest (don't give me that Oh I could afford it if I wanted to bullsh*t either, I'm not buyin it)

If he feels it was worth it for the manifold then more power to him. He didn't come in asking for any of that, lets be adults and drop it. I can't count on my hands the amount of tards that have came up and asked me why I have a Magnus Race manifold instead of a JMF. They ask stupid questions so I answer with a stupid answer. "Because it looks better, kthx bye) Let people do what they want. If this was a "Should I buy this?" thread then I could see the justification for the banter, but its been going on long enough. Kind of beating a dead horse at this point.

I'll agree that most DSMes are cheap skates. It is however a fact that our community has some of the cheapest performance mods in all of autos. But when you pay attention to the crowd you understand why.. *sigh*

 

[Slippi84]

Why do people car what other people have. Is this seriously a thread about people whining about what amount of money another guy is willing to spend for a production he feels is worth it. Its like girls crying over shoes because one chick can't afford the other they get in a pissing contest (don't give me that Oh I could afford it if I wanted to bullsh*t either, I'm not buyin it)

If he feels it was worth it for the manifold then more power to him. He didn't come in asking for any of that, lets be adults and drop it. I can't count on my hands the amount of tards that have came up and asked me why I have a Magnus Race manifold instead of a JMF. They ask stupid questions so I answer with a stupid answer. "Because it looks better, kthx bye) Let people do what they want. If this was a "Should I buy this?" thread then I could see the justification for the banter, but its been going on long enough. Kind of beating a dead horse at this point.

I'll agree that most DSMes are cheap skates. It is however a fact that our community has some of the cheapest performance mods in all of autos. But when you pay attention to the crowd you understand why.. *sigh*

You and me don't have beef but your being a hypocryt right now. I can copy and past times when we didn't see eye to eye and you commented on my build and people saw when we bickered in other threads about parts too. You are no better than the rest of us when it comes to putting in your .02 me included.

With that said I CAN affors a 1200 manifold. If anyone thinks that's bs take a look at my build I have plenty of parts that cost a pretty penny but that is because they were the best parts for my build not the most expensive parts. If QM made their clutches $2k you think it would be the most popular clutch other than the act2600???? NOOOOOOPE.

Money is money and if you stupid enough to think this forum doesn't matter when it comes to buying dsm parts YOUR AN IDIOT!!! I have seen parts burn and crash because it got ripped on here. I have also seen parts get bought up like hot cakes because it got praise on here. Great example SS autochrome exhaust manifolds. You look at the feedback they have like +399999899 feedback score and are platinum ebay seller no matter how many accounts they start because people get it go OHH SHINNY and say great product. People came on here roasted it and almost no one would touch it wether it was good or not people on here roasted it because of cracking issues and it was done. Take XTD racing clutches though. I remember when I posted my experience back in the day people were like idk. They saw my setup saw that I liked it and another guy tried it he likes it and so on. Now those clutches get bought up like crazy.

So like I said if you think threads don't matter then you need a wake up call.

 

[turbo addict]

Why do people car what other people have. Is this seriously a thread about people whining about what amount of money another guy is willing to spend for a production he feels is worth it. Its like girls crying over shoes because one chick can't afford the other they get in a pissing contest (don't give me that Oh I could afford it if I wanted to bullsh*t either, I'm not buyin it)

If he feels it was worth it for the manifold then more power to him. He didn't come in asking for any of that, lets be adults and drop it. I can't count on my hands the amount of tards that have came up and asked me why I have a Magnus Race manifold instead of a JMF. They ask stupid questions so I answer with a stupid answer. "Because it looks better, kthx bye) Let people do what they want. If this was a "Should I buy this?" thread then I could see the justification for the banter, but its been going on long enough. Kind of beating a dead horse at this point.

I'll agree that most DSMes are cheap skates. It is however a fact that our community has some of the cheapest performance mods in all of autos. But when you pay attention to the crowd you understand why.. *sigh*

I agree I think that the people that own these cars don't want to spend any money to go fast. they expect to run 10 for nothing, I have noticed this many times before and a few people have brought this to my attention and there is a HUGE misconception about supra (MKIV) and the 2jz motors how they are indestructible. This is far from the case. the only difference between the 2jz and a 4g63 is the owners not the strength of the motors. the owners of the 2jz when they blow up have the cars picked up my a top of the line shop and have the car repaired and back on the road in no time, they write a Big check and are back on their way.
A dsm owner will complain how his car blew up and how crappy of a platform his car is and buy cheap parts on top of cheep parts and continue to bi*** about all of the problems.

There are fast dsms but 99.99% of the owners wont allow their cars to be fast or put the money where it is needed.

When I started in the dsms they were stilling being made and it was a nice car as time went on and evos came out that is where the people with money went and the dsms fell a spot or two in the pecking order. Now most dsms are owned by people that want fast cars and cant afford the price tag.

This is also becoming clear as some the older MKIV cars with miles on them are filtering down to poorer people and ebay parts are making their way on to them. along with the bulletproof reputation and people are throwing big turbos and wonder why their car isnt making 1000whp but blowing up far shorter of this number.

Time,patients, knowledge and money is what is needed to make a car fast.
Or a ton of money (aka supra owners dropping their cars off at shops with a blank check often going in to the 5figure range)

 

[dsm-onster]

I gots da money. But some don't gots da [dyno] time.

Let's not insult the entire gearhead community just because evo/supra owners have more money . The evo guys want dyno proof for everything even turbo bellmouths. Supra owners ar even worse: they want proof backed by years in the industry to have a huge name. It's silly for ANY wealthy person not to know where there money is going. The shop they trust with their checkbook would want to see the proof too.

That's not to say that it isn't true that 90% of the dsm crowd now thinks these cars already go 10s out of the $2000 box. I totally agree with that. Whining about having to buy cams and a jmf smim to get the VE nod over 8K. . . Well, here's your other option . . . There's nothing wrong with spending money, in the right place. But, I'm too stupid to know on sight whether or not this manifold is worth the money. Looks promising. Now, get some empirical comparative data.

 

[pboglio]

The guys who are bitching about the price, would never buy one anyway, this manifold isn't for you and never would be. CFD software is great, but its not going to simulate pulse tuning which is how the manifolds are making the most power. A streamlined intake manifold could make less power than an intake manifold that is tuned to match the cams, compression ratio, header lengths, etc. of a particular vehicle. No intake manifold is perfect for all cars. Understand that one style intake manifold could by accident be tuned for someones test vehicle with those specific cam specs. Doesn't mean that its "better" than the other intake manifolds, only that by chance or design it happened to "complement" that particular setup.

 

[dsm-onster]

What parts does this intake manifold match?

 

[Slippi84]

I agree I think that the people that own these cars don't want to spend any money to go fast. they expect to run 10 for nothing, I have noticed this many times before and a few people have brought this to my attention and there is a HUGE misconception about supra (MKIV) and the 2jz motors how they are indestructible. This is far from the case. the only difference between the 2jz and a 4g63 is the owners not the strength of the motors. the owners of the 2jz when they blow up have the cars picked up my a top of the line shop and have the car repaired and back on the road in no time, they write a Big check and are back on their way.
A dsm owner will complain how his car blew up and how crappy of a platform his car is and buy cheap parts on top of cheep parts and continue to bi*** about all of the problems.

There are fast dsms but 99.99% of the owners wont allow their cars to be fast or put the money where it is needed.

When I started in the dsms they were stilling being made and it was a nice car as time went on and evos came out that is where the people with money went and the dsms fell a spot or two in the pecking order. Now most dsms are owned by people that want fast cars and cant afford the price tag.

This is also becoming clear as some the older MKIV cars with miles on them are filtering down to poorer people and ebay parts are making their way on to them. along with the bulletproof reputation and people are throwing big turbos and wonder why their car isnt making 1000whp but blowing up far shorter of this number.

Time,patients, knowledge and money is what is needed to make a car fast.
Or a ton of money (aka supra owners dropping their cars off at shops with a blank check often going in to the 5figure range)

Not only is most of this crazy talk it's just flat out WRONG. I came from the supra world before I came here so I can talk on both first hand unlike most people. The 2jz motor IS almost bullet proof bone stock. Comparing a bone stock 3.0l engine that can take 800whp tuned correctly without blowing to a motor that I think the record(as in not comon but doable) is like mid to high 5xxwhp is a waste of time. Second your comparing two different owners who are in two totally different financial states in their life. A supra owner is a guy with a great job maybe mommy and daddy have money or they hit the lotto and they could afford to buy a 20-30k USED car and not think twice vs a kid whose looking to have fun but is in college or HS, maybe a guy who likes cars but has a kid or two or three has a good job but isn't getting rich overnight. Dsm either own their cars because they love the platform(which are the guys that have well built cars) or because it's all they can afford and it was either this or a honda. Supra guys all have money unless they bought their car like Paul walker and built it from the ground up.

You also know why supra owners have their cars blown up and get them back on the road quicker is because they don't fix them they pay someone else too. I learned 10000X more from this forum about cars and making them go faster and work right then all 3 supra forums I was on before here. You know why because of the wealth of knowledge from everyone that has been in my situation and fixed it first hand.

Sorry for the long rant if it comes off like that but I have been to enough dsm events to see and know that the people that are cheap asses and do what you say are there but there but there are TONS of other people like myself that love this platform and wouldn't trade it for anything and we treat our cars right and don't skimp just cause.

You should read up and see what happend the last time a guy came on a forum bad mouthing dsm's and the owners j/k with that part but it is true.

 

[TSimage]

You and me don't have beef but your being a hypocryt right now. I can copy and past times when we didn't see eye to eye and you commented on my build and people saw when we bickered in other threads about parts too. You are no better than the rest of us when it comes to putting in your .02 me included.

With that said I CAN affors a 1200 manifold. If anyone thinks that's bs take a look at my build I have plenty of parts that cost a pretty penny but that is because they were the best parts for my build not the most expensive parts. If QM made their clutches $2k you think it would be the most popular clutch other than the act2600???? NOOOOOOPE.

Money is money and if you stupid enough to think this forum doesn't matter when it comes to buying dsm parts YOUR AN IDIOT!!! I have seen parts burn and crash because it got ripped on here. I have also seen parts get bought up like hot cakes because it got praise on here. Great example SS autochrome exhaust manifolds. You look at the feedback they have like +399999899 feedback score and are platinum ebay seller no matter how many accounts they start because people get it go OHH SHINNY and say great product. People came on here roasted it and almost no one would touch it wether it was good or not people on here roasted it because of cracking issues and it was done. Take XTD racing clutches though. I remember when I posted my experience back in the day people were like idk. They saw my setup saw that I liked it and another guy tried it he likes it and so on. Now those clutches get bought up like crazy.

So like I said if you think threads don't matter then you need a wake up call.

I fail to see how what I said was being hypocritical. I just notice a lot of people who do give their 2 cents about things that shouldn't be their concern and many time coming from people who aren't qualified to make the statement in the first place normally based on what they have heard/seen/read considering they have no personal experience of the matter. I never saw your XTD review but I as well as a few others from other boards have done many reviews on daily driven 10 and 11s cars all running various setups of this product that wound up on the sellers website and a couple of us received free replacement parts for our efforts. (I'm sure you aren't making that statement as if you were the sole person doing reviews on this clutch that many of us have been running the last 5+ years actually testing them on the tracks both drag and track to give some useful comparisons to the multiple other single double and triple plate clutches we have ran) The point I was making is the guy didn't post this as an end all product as if it was going to change the world. Different companies have premiums on their parts and people who are willing to pay for the name do what they want.

People buy Magnus manifolds all the time when they could buy cheaper JMF ones, People buy various brand exhaust manifolds that cost a premium when there are versions on ebay that are close to the same quality or can be modified for less. Heck when we started running the turboxs crap, SSautochrome manifolds, the Megan parts and the dnp manifolds just to name a few when people only swore by punishment racing, sbr, cast manifolds and the like no one cared what we had to say until we had proof. They are accepted now only after cars have proven them on the tracks multiple times, not mere he said she said on a forum. It is what it is. Some of us want really nice looking parts regardless of price. Some of us like particular brands also regardless of price.

Its a personal choice, why does anyone car that this man is willing to spend an additional $200+ for his manifold? I mean seriously, who cares? This isn't some ebay brand some second hand "C4n I r0ck thiz knock 0ff b0v 4nd w4ste g4te dawg??" Its a reputable company that has been known to make quality products, they chose to charge what they want. If they don't sell then they go out of business or drop their price. A few "who shot johns" on a forum aren't going to do anything to the reputation of a company like DVDT. Lets be honest. People cry about how expensive Magnus is and look how much they still thrive.

And in reply to your QM comment, I don't see where that even applies to the point I made. I doubt companies like FFTec. DVD, Shearer, WessHess, AMS, ETC ets feel the need to compete with lower priced brand companies like JMF. People who buy those products buy them associated with the companies prowess and reputation for quality parts and fast cars. Everyone can't be the cheapest and someone has to be the highest.. Thats just how it is. QM isn't the most popular clutch besides the 2600 either, I don't know where that came from. And the QM is one of the most purchased twin disc for us based on the fact that its the cheapest one. Many things about clutches like the PTT are superior to the QM (made by the same people originally but the PTT was the revised version that added many addition things such as disc thickness, quieter operation, slight better clutch pedal feel, recessed bolts so no need to modify the shift fork) but some people can't value the improvements worth it enough to consider them. I did and thus ran a PTT, if someone else doesn't I could have given 2 sh*ts. My money, my car. I made my choice after numerous times driving cars with the weak Exeddy twin, the QM and the PTT. Most people never get the chance to do a side by side comparison of a product to decide if they like it or not and so yes they will look on the forums for assistance but the flaw in that is that 90%+ of the people giving their "opinions" on the products haven't done the testing either, what's even worse is when people who don't even have the part yet or the typical "I have it but the car's not running yet, my buddy's dog groomers cousin has one though and says its awesome"...

So as to anyone I hope they take what they hear on a forum or the news with a grain of salt. Do a back round check on who is making thier statement, what cars have they owned, what have they built, what products have they ran personally. How much work do they do themselves. What is their fastest times on the track or at the strip. How long have they been doing it. I for one even to this day years later am very cautious. After a while you learn who you can trust and normally simply PM them when you have a question.

Just let the man enjoy the manifold. I agree that $1200 is a bit high in comparison to other companies, but with other car groups a $1200 manifold like that is CHEAP. Hell to most my Magnus is over priced but that matters not. I like my quality parts and I'll pay what I have to pay to get them. If the price doesn't meet the improvements, thats a personal opinion 95% of the time. just let it go guys, its allllll goood.

 

[Slippi84]

I fail to see how what I said was being hypocritical. I just notice a lot of people who do give their 2 cents about things that shouldn't be their concern and many time coming from people who aren't qualified to make the statement in the first place normally based on what they have heard/seen/read considering they have no personal experience of the matter. I never saw your XTD review but I as well as a few others from other boards have done many reviews on daily driven 10 and 11s cars all running various setups of this product that wound up on the sellers website and a couple of us received free replacement parts for our efforts. (I'm sure you aren't making that statement as if you were the sole person doing reviews on this clutch that many of us have been running the last 5+ years actually testing them on the tracks both drag and track to give some useful comparisons to the multiple other single double and triple plate clutches we have ran) The point I was making is the guy didn't post this as an end all product as if it was going to change the world. Different companies have premiums on their parts and people who are willing to pay for the name do what they want.

People buy Magnus manifolds all the time when they could buy cheaper JMF ones, People buy various brand exhaust manifolds that cost a premium when there are versions on ebay that are close to the same quality or can be modified for less. Heck we we started running the turboxs carp, SSautochrome manifolds, the Megan parts and the dnp manifolds just to name a few when people only swore by punishment racing, sbr, cast manifolds and the like. They are accepted now only after cars have proven them on the tracks multiple times, not mere he said she said on a forum. It is what it is. Some of us want really nice looking parts regardless of price. Some of us like particular brands also regardless of price.

Its a personal choice, why does anyone car that this man is willing to spend an additional $200+ for his manifold? I mean seriously, who cares? This isn't some ebay brand some second hand "C4n I r0ck thiz knock 0ff b0v 4nd w4ste g4te dawg??" Its a reputable company that has been known to make quality products, they chose to charge what they want. If they don't sell then they go out of business or drop their price. A few "who shot johns" on a forum aren't going to do anything to the reputation of a company like DVDT. Lets be honest. People cry about how expensive Magnus is and look how much they still thrive.

And in reply to your QM comment, I don't see where that even applies to the point I made. I doubt companies like FFTec. DVD, Shearer, WessHess, AMS, ETC ets feel the need to compete with lower priced brand companies like JMF. People who buy those products buy them associated with the companies prowess and reputation for quality parts and fast cars. Everyone can't be the cheapest and someone has to be the highest.. Thats just how it is. QM isn't the most popular clutch besides the 2600 either, I don't know where the fk that came from. And the QM is one of the most purchased twin disc for us based on the fact that its the cheapest one. Many things about clutches like the PTT are superior to the QM but some people can't consider them worth it. I did and thus ran a PTT, if someone else doesn't I could have given 2 sh*ts. My money, my car.

You can quickly search and you will find me posting experience about my XTD clutches that I ran on the street where most of the people buying this clutch run it as far back as I have been on this site and assosiated with dsms. I was probably not the first or the only one back then but the point of that still holds true. Not that you haven't posted but I have never seen or heard you chime in on any of these forums about the clutch so I can not speak on your experience. That is a discussion for another thread though as it's not the point.

You even said it yourself that and I QUOTE
[/QUOTE]Some of us want really nice looking parts regardless of price. Some of us like particular brands also regardless of price.[/QUOTE] Buying parts because they LOOK nice or some big shot company made them is exactly how people get dooped into thing that looks or who makes it guarentees a good operating product....which it doesn't

You always pat for what you get but you don't always get what you pay for


By the way The man who designed the PTT clutch branched off and then designed the QM cluth. They are for the most part almost the same and saying the PTT is superior just shows that you don't know the history of the clutch. One may have different quirks than the other but the QM is DEF run more than any other twin disk for our cars and the act2600 is like the hks272 of clutches.

Just let the man enjoy the manifold. I agree that $1200 is a bit high in comparison to other companies, but with other car groups a $1200 manifold like that is CHEAP. Hell to most my Magnus is over priced but that matters not. I like my quality parts and I'll pay what I have to pay to get them. If the price doesn't meet the improvements, thats a personal opinion 95% of the time. just let it go guys, its allllll goood.

Thanks you atleast you admitt it.

 

[dsm-onster]

All this ranting and the manifold is still FAR overpriced to a competition that hasn't been provent to be inferior. Kind of like buying a GT BB turbo over a BW or holset turbo . But this is FAR more flagrant. At least BB turbos are REALLY tough and have a strangle hold on the market

%^^^Sean that is the simple point. Don't waste your efforts here with the babble. The above is all of what you were saying and that is still the point made. Arguing about other industries is silly at best. This isn't that industry (keep the worthless supra shit in the supra forums). . .This only shows that the marketers dont know the industry. Makes me wonder if they know the car if they dont even know the industry. These arnt "evo facing" manifolds. And FYI, "evo facing" manifolds have been making big power for years and have costed a bit less. . . The DSM relm isn't a dead industry. Just been around long enough not to be a foolish one. Over pricing is weeded out.

As pboglio mentioned, the law of supply and demand prevails. Thoguh I see Nash's Equilibrium takking effect. The high priced girl is out.

 

[TSimage]

You can quickly search and you will find me posting experience about my XTD clutches that I ran on the street where most of the people buying this clutch run it as far back as I have been on this site and assosiated with dsms. I was probably not the first or the only one back then but the point of that still holds true. Not that you haven't posted but I have never seen or heard you chime in on any of these forums about the clutch so I can not speak on your experience. That is a discussion for another thread though as it's not the point.

It was on the XTD website, the dsmlink boards and talk. I have only brought it up a few times here but I agree that that discussion is not for this thread, not sure the name of the company again but they are over here in California.

You even said it yourself that and I QUOTE

Some of us want really nice looking parts regardless of price. Some of us like particular brands also regardless of price.[/QUOTE] Buying parts because they LOOK nice or some big shot company made them is exactly how people get dooped into thing that looks or who makes it guarentees a good operating product....which it doesn't

You always pat for what you get but you don't always get what you pay for[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. I like to have the company name backing a product I have. Why risk anything or have to fix whats not broken. I made the statement that some companies add a premium for their products. The OP felt the product was deserving based on his own financial standing and his opinion on the information he was given. Thats it. There is nothing for us to argue. He gave many examples as to WHY he likes the manifold, so to himself it is justified. He never said "I bought it because I wanted to/ because I can..." He is justified in his purchase and I wish him the best for it.

I could have gotten a cheaper JMF but I like the looks of the Magnus, its also larger visually but I don't know of anyone else besides me who is running it (I'm sure there are others however) but regardless its the one I chose because I know that Magnus has a reputation for building quality parts and going fast, so does JMF, it came down to which product appealed to me more and the Magnus was it. Plus I got a good price on it.

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By the way The man who designed the PTT clutch branched off and then designed the QM cluth. They are for the most part almost the same and saying the PTT is superior just shows that you don't know the history of the clutch. One may have different quirks than the other but the QM is DEF run more than any other twin disk for our cars and the act2600 is like the hks272 of clutches.

I wont even comment on the amount of misinformation in this part, just go here:

http://www.powertraintech.com/Files/PDFs/About PTT.pdf

Like I said bro, I have experience with both clutches, ran them both. I wasn't guessing when I said the guy left Devo/QM to goto PTT...

Oh and FP2/Comp 101200s>> HKS 272s..

Thanks you atleast you admitt it.

Oh I never disagreed, I just felt it was in bad taste for everyone to bash the OP because he felt that his reasons for purchasing his manifold didn't suffice. Its all a matter of opinion. He has a very nice car and I hope this adds to its performance. The manifold definitely looks bullet proof and sometimes that is worth the peace of mind. Any remember the expensive BJ and Hawker manifolds and stuff that came out. The price we pay.

 

[dsm-onster]

You bought a part because it looked better and you promote that. . . That is what I get out of all the words. . .

We're not talking about his money. OP Andy promoting this part for you and me. I don't think its worth it becaue it's not proven. Where's the debate?

. . .BTW, not bashing you or anything. I think this type of constructive back-and-forth is good for you, me, and the community. We're all in the same boat:

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[turbo addict]

Not only is most of this crazy talk it's just flat out WRONG. I came from the supra world before I came here so I can talk on both first hand unlike most people. The 2jz motor IS almost bullet proof bone stock. Comparing a bone stock 3.0l engine that can take 800whp tuned correctly without blowing to a motor that I think the record(as in not comon but doable) is like mid to high 5xxwhp is a waste of time. Second your comparing two different owners who are in two totally different financial states in their life. A supra owner is a guy with a great job maybe mommy and daddy have money or they hit the lotto and they could afford to buy a 20-30k USED car and not think twice vs a kid whose looking to have fun but is in college or HS, maybe a guy who likes cars but has a kid or two or three has a good job but isn't getting rich overnight. Dsm either own their cars because they love the platform(which are the guys that have well built cars) or because it's all they can afford and it was either this or a honda. Supra guys all have money unless they bought their car like Paul walker and built it from the ground up.

You also know why supra owners have their cars blown up and get them back on the road quicker is because they don't fix them they pay someone else too. I learned 10000X more from this forum about cars and making them go faster and work right then all 3 supra forums I was on before here. You know why because of the wealth of knowledge from everyone that has been in my situation and fixed it first hand.

Sorry for the long rant if it comes off like that but I have been to enough dsm events to see and know that the people that are cheap asses and do what you say are there but there but there are TONS of other people like myself that love this platform and wouldn't trade it for anything and we treat our cars right and don't skimp just cause.

You should read up and see what happend the last time a guy came on a forum bad mouthing dsm's and the owners j/k with that part but it is true.

I love the platform and have owned many of them. I currently have 2 2g, 1 1g, and a mirage turbo. The supras will make about the same power as a 4g63 will per hole, or displacement if done correctly. I have seen many supras (MKIV) blow up and I KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT ANY BETTER. They are great cars but so are the 4g6x motors. the difference is in the owners.

Also I would like to know why if you had a supra and they are a better platform that yo now have a 1g?? what year did you have a MKIV or MKIII? huge difference. All of my experience is in the MKIV 2jz platform. I know people with tons of money with them and the (DSMERS of the supra world). It is all in the money. that is all that I am saying.

You are correct when you say that the average supra owner pays for everything, At the tx2k8 meet my friend MKIV blew a stock turbo and myself and him replaced it in the parking lot over night and raced the next day. Everyone there was amazed that this could be done all of the others went back to their respective shops that built them and paid big bucks to get them on the road again before the meet was over. To us it was no big deal, I have been in dsms for years and he is a nissan mechanic.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^hense the dsm culture. Being smart enough to see a deal and fix it or know what you're getting into, getting into it and knowing how to get it working. Because we know the performance per cylinder or per lb of weight is the same; and we know we have better traction (just shitty transmissions). Pboglio said the only good point. In the end, a manifold is far to particular to be mass produced. But I don't see this manifold being tweeked for my requests. That would be another $400

 

[TSimage]

You bought a part because it looked better and you promote that. . . That is what I get out of all the words. . .

We're not talking about his money. He's promoting this part for you and me. I don't think its worth it becaue it's not proven. Where's the debate?

(BTW, not bashing you ro anything. I think this type of constructive back-and-forth is good for you, me, and the community.) We're all in the same boat:

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Then you didn't fully comprehend what I was saying. People buy what they want for various reasons. To some it is worth it to spend an extra few bucks for a "better looking" product or for a "brand name" product. That's a persons right. The OP is not a known vendor nor an employee for DVDT so he's not "promoting" anything.. Go back to the first post. Looks like more of a "Hey look at my nice new manifold" thread which other people decided to turn into a 4 page rant as to how the OP over paid for a product he felt equated its given value.

That's what makes this thread so ridiculous. For christ sake its not even a review thread, some people need to get their heads out of their a$$es. Ok so some of us feel the manifold is a bit over priced. Ok, yay, now move on with your lives. The OP originally claimed nothing and was promoting nothing. He made a thread with a few pictures and the first line reads: "99.999% Done, Need 1 more -10 pushlok!"

Be happy for the guy and quit cluttering up his thread. You all made your points now let him be. None of it is going to change his mind, so why bother.

 

[dsm-onster]

You know andy as well as I or better. He added more info afterwards to show his intent. Its not the beginning of the thread that counts; its the whole contribution by the OP that shows the point. Which is obvious.

Yea I missed your point. You bought the Magnus becasue it looked better You said it. Edit it if you think that was wrong. Last I looked I wasn't seeing brown . Unlike this: You can't bring up quality or performance with a SMIM discussion without knowing how far jmf goes with their products just like magnus. BOTH are name brands.

 

[TSimage]

You know andy as well as I or better. He added more info afterwards to show his intent. Its not the beginning of the thread that counts; its the whole contribution by the OP that shows the point. Which is obvious.

Yea I missed your point. You bought the Magnus becasue it looked better You said it. Edit it if you think that was wrong.

I don't know the OP at all, can't recall any post he has had before and my opinion on the matter is 100% unbiased. It could have been you as the OP and my views would be no different. Seems to me like the OP got a little defensive when people began making their statements which is to be expected. Please don't go digging for a cause when its right there on page one clear as day.

And no need for me to edit anything I typed. My point is I buy what I want for the reasons I want as should everyone else. I know what my budget is and I know what my likes and dislikes are. I'll be damned if someone tells me to buy Rota rims instead of legit HREs and I'd be damned for someone to tell me that my reason for buying a product I justified as a better option for myself. If I was trying to convince the masses then you'd have a point, but if I had no intent on swaying anyone left or right than it would all be babble.

The guy posted up his new manifold, yay for him. Some people hop in and make comments like "$1200 for that thing!!".. "No manifold is worth 1200" and so on and so forth and you don't expect the OP to defend himself? He did a good job of doing it to. If I were him I'd ignore anyone else's negative post and keep posting pics of that badass manifold.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well you SHOULD do more searching. He does promote this company. He was "trying to convince the masses". Its clear.

If he were just glad to get what he wanted he would have said that. He never did. If that's the case then he shouldn't care about the reasons not to get it. But no, he went after those reasons like it was against the purpose of his thread. Step back and look at this.

He said he bought it because it uses better techniques. If he said he bought it because it looks smashing in his engine bay and wants to win car shows and he thinks this will give him an edge, then we wouldn't be arguing. He thinks it flows better because of the engineering behind it. And we want to know where the field work is. Yet you're on OUR case?

 

[tkelly27]

The guys who are bitching about the price, would never buy one anyway, this manifold isn't for you and never would be. CFD software is great, but its not going to simulate pulse tuning which is how the manifolds are making the most power. A streamlined intake manifold could make less power than an intake manifold that is tuned to match the cams, compression ratio, header lengths, etc. of a particular vehicle. No intake manifold is perfect for all cars. Understand that one style intake manifold could by accident be tuned for someones test vehicle with those specific cam specs. Doesn't mean that its "better" than the other intake manifolds, only that by chance or design it happened to "complement" that particular setup.

CFD can do pulsed flow systems
YouTube - FSAE Engine Manifold Simulation
it's in how your modeling is set up and in the parameters you use. If you really want to get technical, when you get around to doing CFD on the manifolds, let us know what the meshing is like and demonstrate that you've reached the point where adding more granularity to the mesh doesn't add accuracy. I would expect it to be a lot finer at the inlets to the runners as compared to the plenum. Can you control the mesh in the SW CFD system?

Much easier to prove, purchase or borrow a manifold that is in a competitive target range and dyno it.

So this manifold could make similar or less power than a competitive manifold for a certain configuration? Shocking. Why is it more than twice as expensive without any proof of it's ability to make power? So far it's been OK'd by a professor, and has made a power gain on an outdated manifold that is difficult to even find anymore. Sign me up : /

I found it!
http://www.profblairandassociates.com/pdfs/RET_Bellmouth_Sept.pdf
"the computed CD results for
the simple rectangular bellmouth are worse than that for the simple
radius RAD-46-23-35-6 and, as a glance at Fig.10 will confirm, this
simple radius bellmouth was a numerical step below all of the profiled
bellmouths. As it is rather difficult to design a rectangular profiled
bellmouth, it will inevitably have a rectangular entry, the general
conclusion must be that rectangular intake ducts and rectangular
intake bellmouths should be avoided by design if at all possible."
Odd, wonder how that compares to a crushed tube. You'll notice that even with ovular inlet ports, nearly all formula engines run round/ovular bell mouth inlets. I've not seen inside a turbo F1 engine IM, it would be nice to see.

http://arhiva.autonet.hr/autonet/formula1/cosworth00/03.jpg

 

[pboglio]

Interesting, always wanted to attempt it but I've done steady state flows only. Might have to give it a shot since I already have the software. I stand corrected.

edit: I'm talking about "acoustical" modeling though, I don't see it on that simulation.

 

[Slippi84]

It was on the XTD website, the dsmlink boards and talk. I have only brought it up a few times here but I agree that that discussion is not for this thread, not sure the name of the company again but they are over here in California.

Some of us want really nice looking parts regardless of price. Some of us like particular brands also regardless of price.

Buying parts because they LOOK nice or some big shot company made them is exactly how people get dooped into thing that looks or who makes it guarentees a good operating product....which it doesn't

You always pat for what you get but you don't always get what you pay for[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. I like to have the company name backing a product I have. Why risk anything or have to fix whats not broken. I made the statement that some companies add a premium for their products. The OP felt the product was deserving based on his own financial standing and his opinion on the information he was given. Thats it. There is nothing for us to argue. He gave many examples as to WHY he likes the manifold, so to himself it is justified. He never said "I bought it because I wanted to/ because I can..." He is justified in his purchase and I wish him the best for it.

I could have gotten a cheaper JMF but I like the looks of the Magnus, its also larger visually but I don't know of anyone else besides me who is running it (I'm sure there are others however) but regardless its the one I chose because I know that Magnus has a reputation for building quality parts and going fast, so does JMF, it came down to which product appealed to me more and the Magnus was it. Plus I got a good price on it.

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I wont even comment on the amount of misinformation in this part, just go here:

http://www.powertraintech.com/Files/PDFs/About PTT.pdf

Like I said bro, I have experience with both clutches, ran them both. I wasn't guessing when I said the guy left Devo/QM to goto PTT...

Oh and FP2/Comp 101200s>> HKS 272s..



Oh I never disagreed, I just felt it was in bad taste for everyone to bash the OP because he felt that his reasons for purchasing his manifold didn't suffice. Its all a matter of opinion. He has a very nice car and I hope this adds to its performance. The manifold definitely looks bullet proof and sometimes that is worth the peace of mind. Any remember the expensive BJ and Hawker manifolds and stuff that came out. The price we pay.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry you are correct I botched the order of the clutches. The point was not X clutch came after Y clutch or vis versa it was that they were made by the same guy so to say one is far superior is rediculos. Especially since QM has revised the clutch since the designer in question left but again all of this doesn't cover the fact that this manifold cost TOO DAM MUCH PERIOD.

You can rant just like I can and we can talk about other issues till we're blue in the face(which we won't because it's not on topic) but it one still isn't going to bring the price of this manifold down and two isn't going to make it worth it's rediculous price tag. I think you miss the boat on this one man and I'm suprised because you have gone away from the beaten path with some of your parts and I didn't think you one to justify a product off GP alone. WHich is what your saying. Buy this manifold because it's looks good and DV/DT makes good stuff period. It's not that he spent 1200 because the funny part about this conversation is HE DIDN'T. That's why I don't think you understand our stance because you must not have read where he even admitted he DID NOT pay retail for this manifold. He didn't say what he paid but I bet what he paid is reasonable and if that's how much it cost for everyone we wouldn't be having this convo. We're saying that the part is overpriced to have not been proven to work better than what's out there now on THIS platform on ant car that is relevant to the potential buyers. Unless his market is 1000whp drag cars only they have yet to even give an example of this manifold outshining another manifold we can all reference.

With that said I'm done I have plenty of things to worry about without what you or anyone else thinks about X or Y manifold. I only ever post on threads like this so mr dsm noob doesn't go his car looks cool and he made power must be that 1200 manifold let me go get it because that is the only manifold that will make that kind of power. That's my .02

 

[tkelly27]

Interesting, always wanted to attempt it but I've done steady state flows only. Might have to give it a shot since I already have the software. I stand corrected.

edit: I'm talking about "acoustical" modeling though, I don't see it on that simulation.

Ohh. I don't know why you couldn't use an acoustic modeling system in conjunction, but that adds a whole other layer. For example they do thermal and flow systems or flow/pressure with stress/strain. I saw a really neat demo of an airbag expanding from packaged to fully opened with the bag stretching out as it expanded. I'll try to find it.

http://www.comsol.com/products/multiphysics/ Comsol has an acoustic add in. Haven't the slightest clue how to set it up though.

Might be a good time for a different thread, this isn't really about a manifold anymore.