Dropped something in head...how screwed am I?

[kenamond]

NOTE: THIS WAS REVIVED FROM APRIL, 2006!! IT'S AN OLD THREAD!!

I'm waiting on a new valve cover, so I had two rags over the valvetrane to keep it clean. I was running my vaccuum line for my boost gauge and was ready to zip-tie the line out of harms way. A zip tie broke and I placed it on the rags on my motor and grabbed another one, but when I picked it up, it got snagged on the rag and the broken piece - 2" long with the box end on it - fell into the head. I'm not positive where it went, and I don't see it. I think it went down the oil drain passage on the front of the head between the #2 and #3 cylinders. Below is an image with that passage circled in red. After that is a zoomed in image. (sorry about the huge images)

How screwed am I? I'm praying that the passage returns to the pan, but I don't know.

What should I do? Help please!!

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[LaN-]

bubble gum on a stick??

Honestly idk what to tell you. maybe it will find its way to the oil pan and you can get it off that way, other then taking the head off. Either way taking the head off or the oil pan isnt that hard.

Good luck

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Someone else on the forums recently had the same problem. They were able to remove it with one of those flexible, cable actuated screw/bolt retrievers (I don't really know if there's a real name for it) by sticking it down the passage and fishing it out.

 

[ndilo21]

Someone else on the forums recently had the same problem. They were able to remove it with one of those flexible, cable actuated screw/bolt retrievers (I don't really know if there's a real name for it) by sticking it down the passage and fishing it out.

Sounds like a good plan but the only problem is that those are usually magnetic and that isn't going to help for a plastic zip tie. I didn't see the other thread but I'm assuming the other person dropped a screw or something metal? Either way I gues it is still worth a try. Worst case senario will probably involve you removing the head and possibly the oil pan, which is not that bad. In any case good luck.

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

Get some sort of industrial vac and suck that SOB outa there haha. goodluck man.

 

[MrBoxx]

I think the tool Velocita was talking about is one like this:

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It shouldn't be magnetic. If you can see the zip-tie end, you can use this to grab it.

 

[4BangR-x]

Its called a snake and they arnt magnetic, or atleast not all, its got a claw on one end and you puch down on the handle to open the claw and let off to close. You could try that, you can get them in plumbing sections of hardware stores.

damn 5 posts were made at once

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I think the tool Velocita was talking about is one like this:

Exactly.

 

[ndilo21]

I think the tool Velocita was talking about is one like this:

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It shouldn't be magnetic. If you can see the zip-tie end, you can use this to grab it.

Ahhhhh got it, thought he was talking about the magnetic type retrievers. Looks like that would be your best bet.

 

[girlieracr4g63]

Sure it didnt fall up under the spring?


Wendy

 

[kenamond]

I have one of those snakes (actually used it to draw up the boost gauge vac line from the steering column boot about 5 mins before I dropped the zip tie piece in the head).

I looked carefully at the valves, but the square head wouldn't fit between the coils, so all I can figure is that it's down that oil passage. It may have fallen outside the head, but it's not on the floor, exaust mani, heat shields, fans, etc.

Looking down the passage (can't see in the photo) with a flashlight, it turns toward the passenger side of the motor, but I can't see the zip tie piece at all down there.

My wife's friend actually suggested the shop vac idea, but I want to know where that passage ends up. I need to open up the other end of it so that air gets drawn past the zip tie piece. Otherwise, it might just draw air through the other oil passages and not even flow any air by the zip tie to flush it up into the shop vac. I've never pulled the oil pan, and I don't know how involved that is, but if that's the easiest next step, I'll do it. I'd really not like to pull the head off just for a fuxin zip tie!!

Does anyone know the anatomy of that oil passage? If I know where it goes, I'll know what I have to do to either get at it or provide flow through it with the shop vac. Down in that passage, I'm pretty sure you can see a 2nd passage off to the right that is in the block. You can see it off to the right in both pictures. The opening of that hole looks clean machined (the surface off to the left of the deeper, smaller hole), so I'm pretty sure that's where the head and block mate (how else would you have a machined planar surface in the center of a cast head?). So that tells me it's not in the head.

All I had left to do was install the valve cover, IC piping (both in the mail) and my boost gauge/A-pillar gauge pod. Everything else was assembled.

I hate that sinking feeling in your stomach when you screw up at the final stretch.

 

[reeper]

bubble gum on a stick??

Honestly idk what to tell you. maybe it will find its way to the oil pan and you can get it off that way, other then taking the head off. Either way taking the head off or the oil pan isnt that hard.

Good luck

I really hope you are kidding.

bad advice 101


if anythng falls into the head and gets cought in any moving part it could cause problrms.

 

[cecil722]

whatever you dropped down that hole should fall into the oil pan. I had a piece of metal do the same thing to me and when i took off my oil pan it was in the bottom. but that passage is for the oil to go to the sump. hope this helped.

 

[G3ne]

Just remove oil pan and find this piece..if not found.....go for digging it from head

 

[G3ne]

Before removal drain old oil.

 

[kenamond]

I just crawled underneath to take a look at the pan. My heart sank a bit, and I came and looked at my Haynes manual, and my heart sank again. I have an AWD, so I have to pull the transfer unit to get the pan off.

Any chance that a hunk of zip tie in the pan won't cause any problems?

I wonder if I leave the drain plug out and pour a quart of oil down that passage if it'll come out the drain. It's 2" long, so it might hit the hole sideways and not come out...or it might be stuck in a turn in the passage, but not so stuck that it won't come loose a month from now.

Maybe I can try the vaccuum trick first with the drain plug out. I just have to fashion a hose that will reach under the exhaust cam and use the old pantyhose trick in the joint of the shop vac hose so that I can see if I brought the bastard-child-of-satan-zip-tie out or not.

This type of shit makes me wonder about doing anything else to my car. DAMN YOU MURPHY SCUM!!

 

[kenamond]

I'm convinced that it's not in the head. I looked carefully at and around each valve spring, and the way the rag shifted only opened up the middle of the head toward the front of the motor. That passage definitely goes straight into the block and then another several inches before it either turns or branches (hard to see much down there even with a flashlight).

And the oil's been drained for several weeks now.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Any chance that a hunk of zip tie in the pan won't cause any problems?

Chances are it won't cause any problems. There's a filter on the oil pickup tube, and something the size of a zip tie wouldn't make it past it. I, however, would've just tried to flush it out with oil, until you said...

And the oil's been drained for several weeks now.

You've might have some more serious problems on your hands than a lost zip tie if there hasn't been any oil in the car for more than a day or two. I'll pray for your car...

 

[kenamond]

You've might have some more serious problems on your hands than a lost zip tie if there hasn't been any oil in the car for more than a day or two. I'll pray for your car...

Huh?

 

[Tevenor]

He's assuming you have been driving it like that.

 

[kenamond]

He's assuming you have been driving it like that.

I sure hope so. I couldn't take any more bad news.

Yes, it's been on jackstands while I've been swapping in a B28, porting the mani/turbine/O2 housing, fixing valve cover leak, adding boost gauge, hard IC pipes, KN FIPK, and doing all of the Stage 0 "mods". And of course the first thing the Haynes manual says is "Drain the oil".

 

[VelocitàPaola]

He's assuming you have been driving it like that.

Ha, I knew he had his car up on stands. I'm not sure how far he would get driving with no oil at all.

I've always been told never to leave a car without oil for more than a day or two, otherwise things start drying, corroding, etc.. I used to work at a few shops back in Ft. Lauderdale, and this was a universal opinion among all of my bosses. They could be wrong, though; I've never had the opportunity (or desire) to test it.

 

[big_eskimo]

It definately makes sense, those seals, bearings, and other misc. parts were meant to be lubricated always, so they may start drying out, rusting, corroding like VelocitàPaola said. I hope that you find that zip tie though, good luck.
R.J.

 

[kenamond]

Luckily, I live in New Mexico, and the humidity this time of year is around 15-20%, so I'm hoping corrosion won't be a problem. If you park a car for a month, all of the oil in the top of the engine will drain down just as if you had drained the oil and let it sit for a month, except that the lower part of the engine that would normally be submerged in 5 quarts of oil would be exposed. I presume this would be the crank and associated bearings. Granted, the valve cover would be on the car, and water vapor would have a much harder time getting in, but I hope this won't be an issue.

So I'm going to try 2 things:
1) Plug the other drain ports in the top of the head except the one the zip tie fell down, open the drain plug, leave the oil filter off, and try sucking the bastard up with a shop vac.
2) Pull the drain plug and pour a quart of oil down that passage and see if I luck out and flush the bugger out the drain.

If neither succeed, I'll leave it in there and pray.

If anyone **knows** I'm doomed leaving it in, please say so; I'll pull the transfer unit and pan if that's the case (would suck if there was no zip tie in the pan at that point, though). I kinda need my car this weekend, but I can make arrangements if this delays me that much.

Thanks alot everyone!!

 

[Tevenor]

Oil in the oil pan does no good to a bearing or seal that relies on lubrication from pumped oil. The only thing leaving oil in the oil pan does is make a convenient place to store used oil. Yeah, seals go bad if left to dry out but you need to pump the oil through the system to avoid this, not just let it sit in the pan.

Think of it this way, you have oil seals in the head. They stay conditioned because of the oil being pumped through the system. If the oil sits in the oil pan for a month, has any oil gotten to the head galleys? No? Then is there any difference if hte oil is in the pan or in a bottle somwhere?

Regardless if you leave oil in the pan or not, after a long absence from running or cranking, ALWAYS ALWAYS prime the oil system first.


But I digress. Back on topic, in general having ANY foreign objects in the pan is bad. But as someone said above, the oil screen would stop it from getting sucked up into the oil pump. I would be more afraid of what that could do if churned up into the crank and melts ( small small chance ). I would just drop the pan and get it out now.