ECMlink curious what peoples fuel and timing maps on e85 look like

[enriquez2000]

I am learning to tune e85 on link(have done on hondata). IM curious what peoples E85 maps look like

 

[GST with PSI]

They shouldn't look too terribly different from a typical pump gas tune. You'll have different target AFRs, and should be able to get more aggressive with your timing. Otherwise, it's business as usual.

 

[enriquez2000]

They shouldn't look too terribly different from a typical pump gas tune. You'll have different target AFRs, and should be able to get more aggressive with your timing. Otherwise, it's business as usual.

Ya.. im just curious with timing because no knock to deal with and where to draw the line. Afr would be 12s

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'll be switching over to e85 later this year also. Interested in timing maps for 35r size turbos. The ve table I'd assume once dialed in from gas won't change assuming no VE effecting parts were changed.

What is the ideal WOT afr? 12.3?

 

[boost97gst]

Ideal is subjective. Turbo size, boost level, IATs, ACTUAL ethanol content. All that plays into it a bit. Get a e85 tester or run ecmlinks new flex fuel sensor function. Winter blend sucks down here in the midwest. E content is around 72%, summer blend is closer to 85 but not quite.

 

[henrysan]

During spoolup, AFR is around 11.5-11.8, 10-11 degrees timing. Then after peak boost around 4.5k I have AFR at 12.1 and increase timing smoothly 5k rpm - 12 degrees, 5.5k rpm 13 degrees, 6k - 15 degrees, so on up to 18 degrees peak timing at 7.5k RPM. This is what seems to work well for my current setup, everyones will be different.

 

[enriquez2000]

Right now ive targeted 12 for afr from 3500 and up. My timing goes up from 10* to 16* and i hold it at 16 from 5500 and up.

I have no way to dyno my awd so i cant tell much about power band but it pulls pretty good. Having a hard time keeping afrs in check with mafcomp as they want to drop to 11.6 after i do a few pulls. Guess its better to go a tad richer than to run too lean. Speed density should help when i get around to it.

Loving e85. My actuator line ripped and i spiked to 25psi with no knock. LUCKILY i have a gauge that warns me when i hit 23 and i pulled out so i didnt do damage.

The ability to add cranking fuel should help cold starts.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

So how do you know when you have added too much timing? Or that your in an unsafe area in the tune with e85? I guess EGT would be a good place to atart?

 

[BoostedBeaver]

My current setup is 10* - 11* during spoolup and peak out at 19*.

As far as when to stop adding timing, a dyno is really useful at monitoring manual best torque. Without a dyno, EGTs will be your next best bet.

 

[bastarddsm]

Lol what? load bearing dyno? Are we high today? Egt's? Good grief, this isn't 1990 we have better tools.

For giving it timing...Any dyno will do. Sure a brake dyno would be helpful because you can hold it at steady state while you sweep the timing, but I'm pretty sure your 4g isn't going to like sitting at 35psi and 5500 for an extended period while the whole system heat soaks, and then you do it again at 6000rpm?

No, use a regular old dyno, make a pull add a couple degrees, see if it picks up power. Read your plugs. Keep this up untill it's not giving you anymore power or detonation shows up.

If a dyno isn't availible, take it to the track. Take off easy and try to make consistent passes. Add timing and watch the trap speed. If the trap speed isn't picking up, your not picking up power.

I read my plugs a lot. I'm not Austin Coil, but I try. The plugs will probably tell you more than any wideband, Knock sensor or dyno will ever tell you.

As far as EGT, thats best left for looking for cylinder ballance IMHO. high EGT's are a sign of making power. The more you make the hotter they are going to be. Sure you can see the EGT' change as you add timing, but whats's good and whats bad? how do you know the difference betweekn perfect, and timings retarded as hell, but it's way rich? or it's way lean and timing is advanced to far?

You'd be better off looking for timing hints by watching crankcase pressure. Detonation events typically will unseat the rings and cause a little spike in crankcase pressure. You can also spot detonation by puffs of odd color smoke in the exhaust.


As a reference point, I've ran the same setup for years, had some changes here and there. My car generally wants 17-18* sometimes as 20* at high RPM and 35psi. It shows some knock sensor activity, and it lightly peppers the plugs, but it goes the fastest like this, and doesn't have problems keeping a $40 felpro composite gasket in it. I also run non projected plugs.

Recessed plugs, and narrow gaps all have the same effect as pulling timing.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Thats right, any dyno will do but no one in their right mind would hold a car at high load factors for an extended period of time.

EGT’s can be a good indicator of timing effects if that is the only factor being altered. Do your homework on EGTs before and you will be ok. If you plan to read the plugs every pull, that could be an effective alternative. I personally have only done this a few times so I tend to recommend other alternatives that have worked for me.

To each his own and all of these methods listed above are viable options.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

When you say 10-11* on spool you mean like as soon as you stomp the gas until the peak tq drop? Or are you saying your 10-11* at peak tq. Cause i have 18-19* spool up (stomp throttle to peak tq drop) and it spools slow. I'm wondering if having lower timing as it builds boost will help with that.

 

[bastarddsm]

Lower timing will help the turbo come up quicker. Same idea as antilag, more energy in the exhaust gas. It will slow the car down, even though you are making more boost.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

By spool up, I am referring to the time from 0psi to full boost (30psi). After the car reaches the desired boost, timing is added back in.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Wow okay so i probably should lower it haha it takes me 6 seconds to spool 3rd gear from 3k to 7kk it's not cool. And thats 36psi on 6466 on twin scroll 1.15

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Care to share timing map of what your 10* spool up? Op was asking for maps