Crower Cams

[dsmturboawd]

why doesnt buschur ever use cam gears if theyre so great?

 

[Rick@AP]

What does Buschur have to do with tea in China?

MNGSX gave some good points as to why you should use them. If you decide that you don't want to listen to what he said, then that's your priority, but please don't start with what Buschur doesn't do.

Buschur is human as well and has been known to be wrong about a number of things.

 

[GiRtHyTaLonTsI]

guys thank you for all your help all your opinons have been really useful. I was just wondering if i have to modify my Cam angel senser or is that only for 2nd gens???

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by rdrkt
Yes you can dial them in on the dyno but do you really want to spend 3 hrs on a dyno at $100+ to pick up 10-15hp somewhere

It won't take 3hrs. Those gears are easy as hell to adjust. 100x more time will be spent on ignition and fuel than cam degreeing.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Related note:

Per SCCs' Feb Issue EVO Buildup:

The Vishnu EVO we tested back in the September '03 issue showed huge gains from retarding both cams 5 degrees

They were referring to the OEM Mitsu cams.. which supports the implication that any Camshaft can benefit from degreeing since If HKS uses the OEM Cam centerline as their base.. then would stand to reason their aftermarket cams would also benefit.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by DSM90AWD
Related note:

Per SCCs' Feb Issue EVO Buildup:


They were referring to the OEM Mitsu cams.. which supports the implication that any Camshaft can benefit from degreeing since If HKS uses the OEM Cam centerline as their base.. then would stand to reason their aftermarket cams would also benefit.

Yes. Only on an Evo 8 with Evo 8 camshafts. The only way to get it right is to head to a dyno and see if there are any wheel gains from advancing or retarding the camshafts. I would not recommend using tuning techniques other than ones used on DSMs. Evo 8's are similar, but not the same. Changing the camshaft timing will move the powerband around. Yes you gain 5whp there, but you loose some torque somewhere else.

 

[MNGSX]

The cars are'nt that different.

The point is still valid if a DSM likes a given set of cams with the intake 2 degrees advanced and the exhaust 4 retarded.

The point is that any given engine sporting any grind of cams can take a shine to a fine tuning of camshaft alignment. It takes a real dyno to produce real tangible numbers. I have found on other cars that the butt dyno and the et clock are a good basic way to see if you are getting warmer.

 

[Thxbrett]

Here is a dyno sheet showing before and after cam gear tuning on a Evo VIII.
http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/evo/Evo_camgears_01.jpg

Not much loss at all down low, and a ton of power up top. I am dynoing my Eclipse again this week and will be adjusting my gears(currently set at -3/-3) to see if I can make some more power down low as my turbo(55 trim T3/T4) is a little laggy. I will post what I find after tuning the car.

Brett.

 

[Kingdom]

Originally posted by BoostinAWD
Perfectly every time since they are ground by a machine, and not a human.

I dont understand, arent crower cams grounded by a machine also. how come they need degreeing then?

 

[MNGSX]

They are all CNC machined.

Maybe HKS has better equipment or QC.. I have'nt used either yet...

HKS cams are'nt used in domestic V8s and most of the time I used Isky's.

There is no way a crower is going to be 8 degrees off... Maybe 1 or 2 and I could see how another MFG could really crank down the QC checks and recalibrate their equipment more often and keep them around +/- .5 degrees error..

 

[nanokpsi]

Originally posted by MNGSX
It won't take 3hrs. Those gears are easy as hell to adjust. 100x more time will be spent on ignition and fuel than cam degreeing.

It will take a lot of time to degree thew cams for best results, especially since the gains can be minimal sometimes. Degree cam, make a run, cool down, make a run, degree cam....etc. With the price of the gears and dyno time it may not be worth the 10whp. Personally i would spend the cash else where untill I have all the other stuff maxed out.

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by nanokpsi
It will take a lot of time to degree thew cams for best results, especially since the gains can be minimal sometimes. Degree cam, make a run, cool down, make a run, degree cam....etc. With the price of the gears and dyno time it may not be worth the 10whp. Personally i would spend the cash else where untill I have all the other stuff maxed out.

Cam gears are a bit spendy... I agree there. If it can make power and it's bling... I buy it. Just bling.. probably not.. Just power... hell yes..
I like them... To me it's like buying a nice 3 keyway double roller timing set or a gear drive for a SBC. I like timing accurate to 1/60th of a degree.

As for actually using a degree wheel and a dial indicator just do that the first time. Make sure that they are lined up straight up or dialed the same amount in the same direction as others have dyno'd with those cams. Ask around... Once you have a baseline then bumping it a degree one way or another can be accomplished by merely looking at the markings on a HQ cam gear. So at the dyno make run, make cam timing change, make run...

There is no need to cool down. The gears are not near anything really hot and no dissasembly is needed if you popped of the upper timing cover for the runs.

 

[nanokpsi]

Originally posted by MNGSX
Cam gears are a bit spendy... I agree there. If it can make power and it's bling... I buy it. Just bling.. probably not.. Just power... hell yes..
I like them... To me it's like buying a nice 3 keyway double roller timing set or a gear drive for a SBC. I like timing accurate to 1/60th of a degree.

As for actually using a degree wheel and a dial indicator just do that the first time. Make sure that they are lined up straight up or dialed the same amount in the same direction as others have dyno'd with those cams. Ask around... Once you have a baseline then bumping it a degree one way or another can be accomplished by merely looking at the markings on a HQ cam gear. So at the dyno make run, make cam timing change, make run...

There is no need to cool down. The gears are not near anything really hot and no dissasembly is needed if you popped of the upper timing cover for the runs.

I only mention cool down time becasue of run-run variation being higher on warm runs. You ar going to be dealing with small amounts of power that could easily be mistaken for run-run variance thus nullifying your adjustments. I have talked to several poeple that have gone to adjustable gears and didn't gain a lot of power. I bet you could set up a good water/alky injection for the same price and get more power. just my .02