Cranks, idles, dies.....

[cbravnmls01]

Hello all.. Newbie here and recently new DSM owner. I have a 95 Talon, TSi AWD. Anyway here's the deal...

I purchased this car for $800. Sweet right? Bought it knowing that I was gonna have to put in some wrench time. The only thing I was told is that it dropped a valve and wouldn't start. So towed it home from Davenport, IA 500 miles from me, to WI. That was 3 months ago. Two weeks ago I took the head off and sure enough dropped TWO valves.:boring HMMM the plot thickens. So I took the head in, got it machined, installed all new valves, seals, and gaskets, put it together and cranked it for the first time since I had it, wouldn't run. So I bought some new Fuel injector isolators, o-rings, plugs and wires.

So this is what I've checked so far. Being a mechanic, I know what to look for as far as fuel, compression, spark, my ECU, fuel pump relay, all my connectors,.. anyway, I know a lot of the forums have gone over these issues. But NO ONE has this problem....

I can start it, idles for 4-6 seconds than dies. I have fuel, and spark during the idle, and it just dies. Fuel pump relay clicks off after the engine dies so I know the fuel pump is running. Timing is dead on with a 2 degree advance. Spark plugs are gapped to where they should be. I have all vacuum lines connected correctly. No leaks on boost test, and no leaking anything. This is my nightmare, hope to hear from ya guys.... PEACE!!

 

[cbravnmls01]

no one has any ideas?

 

[1slow97]

Check your fuel pump it chould be going out. That's what i would check first.

 

[danny_l_2005]

What was your results on your compression test? You base ignition timing should be 5 BTDC. Is your valve timing correct?

 

[FFTec - jerry]

If you still have your MAF in, you should check to see if that's going bad. You might also want to check the I/C or the I/C pipes to make sure there's no leak.

Jerry

 

[crimsondragon]

Did you check the CAS?

 

[cbravnmls01]

ok turns out the cps was shot in the BUTT so now it idles but it takes a long time to rev up to at least 3K. There's fuel pressure and compression. idk how to adjust timing to 5 degrees so any help would be appreciated. I do have access to a chrysler DRB III

 

[kenamond]

ok turns out the cps was shot in the BUTT so now it idles but it takes a long time to rev up to at least 3K. There's fuel pressure and compression. idk how to adjust timing to 5 degrees so any help would be appreciated. I do have access to a chrysler DRB III

I've always read/been told that you cannot adjust 2g base timing.

So you don't get a CEL? I figure it would have told you the CPS was bad.

What happened to the CPS? If the crank is walking, one sign is that the crank sensor gets taken out.

And you double-checked cam timing?

How's compression?

 

[cbravnmls01]

UPDATE!!! So no CEL on, timing is dead on, the Cam positoning sensor was busted by the machine shop that did my head. Anyway. All that is good now. I have 165 average psi across the board for compression I have great fuel pressure. but now i can't idle and it doesnt go any higher than 2500 rpm. any ideas?

 

[crimsondragon]

What do you mean you can't idle? Does it stay running? Or does it still die? It sounds like a vac leak.

 

[cbravnmls01]

oh no it idles and runs but it idles at like 250. and it won't rev up more than 2500 and it drops down. no idea. I do think that my power transistor is shot thought seeing as i have one coil jumped to the other right now.

 

[cbravnmls01]

Ok so here's what I've learned in the past 4 months that I've been a DSMer. The 4G63 engine needs to be EXACTLY ON TIME or it ain't gonna run right. I have had to R&R my $*&^ing head about 4 times before I got an Eagle technician at work to look at it and tell me what I was doing wrong. So here it is. So when I bought the car I knew it was going to need head work. Just see my first post above. Anyway since than I've been dealing with what I thought was a fuel and compression issue. No dice. So upon further investigation, I realize my MFI relay is shot. Ah sweet I said. I called up our local dealership and here I find a 70 dollar part that I don't need. Here's the real problem....

I met a local DSMer near me and asked him for a few suggestions. We originally met up ### I found out my Power Transistor was kaput. So I grabbed one from him and on my way I was. So I put everything back together. Still idled but like hell and would'nt go any higher than 3k. Hmmm. So I finally said F this in the A. I ripped the head off again and triple checked everything. Got to the timing part of it and WOW what do you know. I never had the lines on the cams lined up like the MITSUBISHI book said. EVER. I eyeballed it and thought it was right. WRONG!!! I never used a straight edge to make sure the lines were right. So lined em up and BAM!!! Smooth sailing now. Oh yeah and Andy, if your reading this, remember how I said I towed it from Iowa, you'd have a hard time believing that I dragged the rear wheels ### the driveline is solid my brotha. END OF STORY.

 

[kenamond]

Glad you figured it out.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I met a local DSMer near me and asked him for a few suggestions. We originally met up ### I found out my Power Transistor was kaput. So I grabbed one from him and on my way I was. So I put everything back together. Still idled but like hell and would'nt go any higher than 3k. Hmmm. So I finally said F this in the A. I ripped the head off again and triple checked everything. Got to the timing part of it and WOW what do you know. I never had the lines on the cams lined up like the MITSUBISHI book said. EVER. I eyeballed it and thought it was right. WRONG!!! I never used a straight edge to make sure the lines were right. So lined em up and BAM!!! Smooth sailing now. Oh yeah and Andy, if your reading this, remember how I said I towed it from Iowa, you'd have a hard time believing that I dragged the rear wheels ### the driveline is solid my brotha. END OF STORY.

Good to hear ya got it. Take it out in the snow yet???

 

[JusMX141]

Everything you're describing happened to my buddy's '95 TSi when we swapped cams. I believe the lifters had to bleed down because the problem fixed itself after about 30 minutes of trying to get the car to run.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Everything you're describing happened to my buddy's '95 TSi when we swapped cams. I believe the lifters had to bleed down because the problem fixed itself after about 30 minutes of trying to get the car to run.

I've had a simular problem like that. Happens usually when the lifters are left out for a while.

 

[JusMX141]

We didn't really screw around- just a cam swap. Maybe the lifters had 15 minutes or so to open up, but that's probably all it took.

Once we got the car back together and cranked it over, the thing sounded like it had ZERO compression. I was puzzled, but the more we cranked it the better it began to sound. Eventually it was firing on 2 of the 4, then on all 4 but wouldn't idle. Within a few minutes of sitting in the car holding the throttle around 2k-3k, it was fine.

 

[kenamond]

If there is any oil in the lifters and they are expanded, they are VERY difficult to compress, and take a while to bleed down. If you pull the cams, the lifters can all extend. When you reinstall the rockers and cams and the lifters haven't bled down (from the force of the valve springs via the rockers), they hold the valves open. So it's probably that after the cams went back in, the lifters were extended, and many of the valves weren't closing, so compression was pathetic or zero. Eventually, the lifters bleed back down and all is well. I'm a bit suprised that this works at all (that the valves don't hit the crowns), but the lifters must bleed down enough that this doesn't happen.

When I replaced my lifters, I emptied them completely (after priming them of course) so that you could compress them easily. They tick like a som-bi*** for about 2 minutes until they fill with oil, but then they shut up and all is well.