crank for 25 to 30 seconds and then start

[TOT20"]

I have a 95 talon non turbo with the 420a and it likes to give me a good hard start. It will crank for 25 to 30 seconds and then start. After first starting it will sound like it is loaded up for about a minute of idle. If anyone has any type of advice then it would be great.

 

[TalonESIT]

I have a 95 talon non turbo with the 420a and it likes to give me a good hard start. It will crank for 25 to 30 seconds and then start. After first starting it will sound like it is loaded up for about a minute of idle. If anyone has any type of advice then it would be great.

Have you checked the timing? Spark plugs? Plug wires? Does the starter sound like it is struggling? Fuel filter?

Could be sensors too, but start with simple things...

 

[TOT20"]

We have done all that and then some we have done the fuel filter, fuel pump, injectors, plugs, wires, timeing belt, head gasket,cam sensor, the timing was done by a shop in town twice and they were not sure what it was and did not want to look in to it any more. we have done more than what we should before taking it to the shop first. the only thing we havnt replaced is the map, mass,crank, starter and coil pack.

 

[LD25Delta9]

Definately check your coil pack. That'd be one of the first things I would have checked. Anything ignition or timing related. Have you done a compression check? If so, and everything was cool (175-225 Psi.), do a compression leak test to see if you're valves are leaking any of your built up presure.

 

[TOT20"]

Coil did no good. A compression test was done about 6 weeks ago and they all turned out to be 195 no leak for 30 min. per cylinder. The one thing that i think is the tps but every time i mention it it gets me nowhere with anybody.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

your best bet is have it hooked up to a scan tool that will show you the readings from each sensor. BTW your car doesnt have mass air sensor, its a map sensor only

 

[TOT20"]

your best bet is have it hooked up to a scan tool that will show you the readings from each sensor. BTW your car doesnt have mass air sensor, its a map sensor only

Really good idea but nobody in this small town has the plug for the obd1 and 2 plug and that is what i have told everyone that has asked about the mass but they dont beleave me on it.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

a 95 talon is OBDII, if you cant find a shop with an obd2 code reader you must be in the middle of nowhere

 

[r1991_4g63t]

your right then, just MAP no MAF. some people just dont like to listen to you, even when it comes to your own car

 

[TOT20"]

some 95s where obd2 if you hook up the scan tool to it it will say on connection made and turns off\

 

[r1991_4g63t]

some 95s where obd2 if you hook up the scan tool to it it will say on connection made and turns off\

go in through generic obd2 not manufacturer specific. ALL scan tools should be able to do that. must have some real geniuses workin wherever your going

 

[viprez586]

Perform a fuel pump volume flow test, general rule of thumb is 16oz in 30sec. Check to see what your residual fuel pressure is too.

 

[TOT20"]

38 psi at the rail and no leak down

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Is the pressure you posted fuel pressure when cranking or when it is running?

 

[r1991_4g63t]

i had him hold the gas down while starting and that did the trick so im thinkin he needs to get rid of the platinum plugs

 

[viprez586]

i had him hold the gas down while starting and that did the trick so im thinkin he needs to get rid of the platinum plugs

Platinum..our cars hate it.

Standard NGK BPR6ES gapped at .028"
Might want to upgrade the wires if you don't have ones with good insulation(arcing).

BTW those 20" rims might look good but the downside of that is you loose braking ability, acceleration, MPG. So if your aiming for performance, loose the 20"s

 

[LD25Delta9]

Platinum..our cars hate it.

Standard NGK BPR6ES gapped at .028"
Might want to upgrade the wires if you don't have ones with good insulation(arcing).

I don't have platinums but I do run iridium NGK's I haven't had any problems. Is this a bad thing? They come pregapped, and all look to be under normal wear.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

the reason the platinum plugs have a problem is the size of the electrode, iridiums are the same way, compare a copper plug to a platinum or iridium and you'll understand why they fail

 

[Jeff99GS]

I had that same problem before on My 420a GS and it was the Cam sensor Came unplugged

I know you said you checked it but make sure the plug is pushed on ALL the way till it clicks to make a good connection.

 

[viprez586]

I don't have platinums but I do run iridium NGK's I haven't had any problems. Is this a bad thing? They come pregapped, and all look to be under normal wear.

Yes, i've experienced stellar results with copper plugs at .028" but I'm not quite sure what you 420a guys run. But yeah, don't waste your money on "expensive" plugs, go with the standard NGKs. Always check the gap too, I don't trust the auto part store guy going through EVERY spark plug that "comes pre-gapped", looks up they're application and gaps them before he gives them to you. Would if they were dropped during shipping, at the store, etc?

 

[roadrunner2176]

Sounds to me like the typical non turbo 3rd times a charm. When your turn your key into the on position does your fuel pump prime, if it does than your getting fuel, its eventually starts and runs so your getting spark. Not the best way of going about it, but it makes sense. You might just need to change your asd relay, or auto shut down relay. Basically if you have fuel and spark, but no start its either a crank sensor, cam position sensor, or asd relay. If its something else its a bigger problem. You can test both sensors, cannot remember correctly at the moment, you just need a voltmeter and about 10 minutes. Auto zone has the instructions on how to test on their website. The asd relay is not as easy to test, and runs around 55$. You can pick up an identical one from auto zone or equivalent for 9$ and swap the housings.

At this point, its a quick and easy test, and well worth it to look into.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

Sounds to me like the typical non turbo 3rd times a charm. When your turn your key into the on position does your fuel pump prime, if it does than your getting fuel, its eventually starts and runs so your getting spark. Not the best way of going about it, but it makes sense. You might just need to change your asd relay, or auto shut down relay. Basically if you have fuel and spark, but no start its either a crank sensor, cam position sensor, or asd relay. If its something else its a bigger problem. You can test both sensors, cannot remember correctly at the moment, you just need a voltmeter and about 10 minutes. Auto zone has the instructions on how to test on their website. The asd relay is not as easy to test, and runs around 55$. You can pick up an identical one from auto zone or equivalent for 9$ and swap the housings.

At this point, its a quick and easy test, and well worth it to look into.

holding the pedal to the floor wouldnt help any of those. its flooding due to bad spark, pedal to the floor = flood clear

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Platinum..our cars hate it.

Standard NGK BPR6ES gapped at .028"
Might want to upgrade the wires if you don't have ones with good insulation(arcing).

BTW those 20" rims might look good but the downside of that is you loose braking ability, acceleration, MPG. So if your aiming for performance, loose the 20"s

Remember what section you are in. 4G63 and 420a use different plugs.

OP, if you throw in NGK plugs, go with the BKR-6ES with a gap of around .50

 

[LD25Delta9]

Yes, i've experienced stellar results with copper plugs at .028" but I'm not quite sure what you 420a guys run. But yeah, don't waste your money on "expensive" plugs, go with the standard NGKs. Always check the gap too, I don't trust the auto part store guy going through EVERY spark plug that "comes pre-gapped", looks up they're application and gaps them before he gives them to you. Would if they were dropped during shipping, at the store, etc?

Yeah I always check for proper gap when I do my plugs. I'm kinda ocd about it. When I switch my head I'll try the basics... cheaper is good.

 

[Locke]

38 psi at the rail and no leak down

You should be getting ~50psi under all conditions.