clutch not engaging/disengaging properly

[Orangedsm95]

I was having issues with the clutch fork hitting the side of the transmission case and it was causing disengaging issues. I pulled the trans out and the clutch fork and pivot ball were badly worn and the flywheel and pressure plate had some pretty good size heat cracks. I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, flywheel, tob, clutch fork and pivot ball. Adjusted the clutch master rod as per Jacks vfaq video. Then looked for leaks at the slave and master cylinder didn't find any (both are little over a year old). I inspected the rubber part of the line to make sure it wasn't bulging and clutch fork is also angled towards the driver side of the car. Took the car for a ride i noticed right away that the pedal was softer then before. Im not sure of the specs of the pp that was in the car originally so idk if its just because the new pp has a lighter clamp load. I also noticed that it seemed notchy when i shifted and that the clutch doesn't start to engage until the clutch pedal is almost all the way depressed. I checked the pedal height and free play, pedal height was at 7 inches and the free play was about 3/4 to 1 inch. According to the haynes manual its supposed to be 7 to 7 1/8 inch pedal height and a 1/4 to 1/2 inch freeplay. The pedal stop is backed out all the way already and no matter what i do i cant get less then 3/4 inch freeplay and still be able to push the slave rod in. If the rain lets up im gonna go out there today and bleed the system but other then that im stumped.. Any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks, Jr.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Flywheel step height was verified?
With aftermarket clutches, I have yet to see one that allowed for what the haynes manual suggests for free play.

If the pedal is soft, it probably has air in the line.
Bleed it per these instructions.

 

[Orangedsm95]

Flywheel step height was verified?
With aftermarket clutches, I have yet to see one that allowed for what the haynes manual suggests for free play.

If the pedal is soft, it probably has air in the line.
Bleed it per these instructions.

Im not even sure what you mean when you say the flywheel step height.. So even if the flywheel is new the step height needs to be checked? I hope i dont have to pull the trans again for this things goin to the car crusher.

 

[untouchablecc]

Im not even sure what you mean when you say the flywheel step height.. So even if the flywheel is new the step height needs to be checked? I hope i dont have to pull the trans again for this things goin to the car crusher.

I have battled clutch issues for years so I hope I can help you out. Step height is the distance between the pedistals (clutch bolts holes on flywheel area) to the disk mating surface on the flywheel. If that distance is not the correct gap you will have engaugment issues. Im more or less concerned on how your bleeding your clutch. If your doing it alone your probably not getting all the air out. You need one person to pump the pedal and one to bleed the clutch. The way I bleed all my clutchs and brake lines is by running a rubber hose from my bleeder valve down into a tube of break fluid and pumping the pedal till I dont see and air. Also paying attention to the amount of fluid in the reservior. Then I close the valve, have someone do a 10 pedal pump and crack the valve with the rubber hose still ran into a tube of fluid to do a final check and see if I have any air or dirty fluid. Hope this helps.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I have battled clutch issues for years so I hope I can help you out. Step height is the distance between the pedistals (clutch bolts holes on flywheel area) to the disk mating surface on the flywheel. If that distance is not the correct gap you will have engaugment issues. Im more or less concerned on how your bleeding your clutch. If your doing it alone your probably not getting all the air out. You need one person to pump the pedal and one to bleed the clutch. The way I bleed all my clutchs and brake lines is by running a rubber hose from my bleeder valve down into a tube of break fluid and pumping the pedal till I dont see and air. Also paying attention to the amount of fluid in the reservior. Then I close the valve, DO NOT have someone do a 10 pedal pump and crack the valve with the rubber hose still ran into a tube of fluid to do a final check and see if I have any air or dirty fluid. Hope this helps.

Fixed.

 

[Orangedsm95]

TRE TECH TIPS

I did a little research on step height and from what i read on the tre site it sounds as if this might be the problem. Im gonna try bleeding the clutch using the instructions on the link that T is for Turbo posted and see if it helps at all. I just dont see if there is air in the line how it would cause the clutch to engage late.

 

[untouchablecc]

Fixed.

Your entilted to your own opinion. I have no issues this way.

 

[T is for TURBO]

The link I posted is from a reputable transmission builder. I'll side with that set of instructions

 

[Orangedsm95]

i appreciate both of your guys input cause im lost here. So do either of you know if you have to check the step height even on a new flywheel or just a resurfaced one? Also would having air in the line affect the engagement of the clutch?

 

[Spoolin98]

i appreciate both of your guys input cause im lost here. So do either of you know if you have to check the step height even on a new flywheel or just a resurfaced one? Also would having air in the line affect the engagement of the clutch?

You should have the step height checked ALWAYS before putting a new, used, or resurfaced flywheel in.
Did you shim the pivot ball?
Did you use OEM ball, fork and TOB?

 

[Boostdriven]

I also noticed that it seemed notchy when i shifted and that the clutch doesn't start to engage until the clutch pedal is almost all the way depressed.

This tells me that your clutch is disengaging properly. The fact that that you said that it don't grab till the paddle is almost all the way up, (let's say 75% up) means that at 50% paddle travel your clutch is already disengaged and when the paddle is 100% pressed down there shouldn't be any question that the clutch disk is 100% free. You shouldn't have to mess with the step heights on the new parts, ones something has been machined then you would want to check it. Any good machine shop will know how to measure and machine the flywheel properly.

The notchy feeling in the tranny could be due to the normal wear and tear of parts like synchros, engagement teeth on the gears and slider rings. What kind of oil did you put back in the tranny after the clutch job?

 

[Orangedsm95]

You should have the step height checked ALWAYS before putting a new, used, or resurfaced flywheel in.
Did you shim the pivot ball?
Did you use OEM ball, fork and TOB?

I didnt know you had to get the flywheel checked or i would have. I guess thats to late now. Yes its the oem clutch fork, pivot ball, and tob. I also put one spacer behind the pivot ball. The clutch fork is angled towards the driver side also.

This tells me that your clutch is disengaging properly. The fact that that you said that it don't grab till the paddle is almost all the way up, (let's say 75% up) means that at 50% paddle travel your clutch is already disengaged and when the paddle is 100% pressed down there shouldn't be any question that the clutch disk is 100% free. You shouldn't have to mess with the step heights on the new parts, ones something has been machined then you would want to check it. Any good machine shop will know how to measure and machine the flywheel properly.

The notchy feeling in the tranny could be due to the normal wear and tear of parts like synchros, engagement teeth on the gears and slider rings. What kind of oil did you put back in the tranny after the clutch job?

I used amsoil 75-90 gear oil. So your saying on a new flywheel the step height doesnt need to be checked? Would bleeding the clutch help this at all? I got asteel braided line to replace the rubber part of the clutch line havent put it on yet but do u think it would help this issue at all?

 

[untouchablecc]

First try bleeding the clutch with a friend and make sure all of your air is out so that can be rulled out. The biggest thing is ruling out air in the line. Which clutch and flywheel set up did you use? If you used a southbend I believe they recommend a different step height from whats the factory calls for but im not 100% on this. I wouldnt be hung up on step height nearly as much with a new flywheel as I would using a worn one but you never know what the quality control is like depending on where you got it from.

 

[Orangedsm95]

Unfortunately its a f1 racing clutch and flywheel i got off ebay. I guess i got what a paid for idk. Im gonna try to get someone to help me bleed it tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[Spoolin98]

You shouldnt have used a shim on a brand new pivot ball and fork, thats only a fix for worn parts.

Bleed the clutch, do not pump the clutch pedal. Once you have bled it to the point where there is no bubbles coming out. Press the slave cylinder in by hand and hold it there, bleed the line again to get any air bubbles in the slave out.

The ebay parts might be your problem...

 

[untouchablecc]

You shouldnt have used a shim on a brand new pivot ball and fork, thats only a fix for worn parts.

Bleed the clutch, do not pump the clutch pedal. Once you have bled it to the point where there is no bubbles coming out. Press the slave cylinder in by hand and hold it there, bleed the line again to get any air bubbles in the slave out.

The ebay parts might be your problem...

Im with you on the shim thing. I think thats the whole issue right there.

 

[Boostdriven]

Though I agree on the shim not being needed for the new parts I don't think its causing any problems. The only thing its doing is pushing the slave cylinder piston further in to the cylinder, that doesn't change the travel distance on either of the cylinders. You can try to bleed the system again but I don't think that will do anything. Bleeding the system of air usually helps if your clutch is grabbing early right off the floor. From what you said it seems that your clutch is disengaging all the way since it don't grab till the paddle is most of the way up. I don't completely understand what you're trying to fix, your clutch will feel different because its a completely different pressure plate.

 

[T is for TURBO]

If its not an oem flywheel, I would not trust the out of box step height.
Step height is critical. If it were me in your shoes, I would pull the trans and have it verified.

Step height should be .612" with a perfectly flat friction surface

 

[Spoolin98]

If its not an oem flywheel, I would not trust the out of box step height.
Step height is critical. If it were me in your shoes, I would pull the trans and have it verified.

Step height should be .612" with a perfectly flat friction surface

I agree, I would also remove the shim while I had the trans out.

 

[Orangedsm95]

Though I agree on the shim not being needed for the new parts I don't think its causing any problems. The only thing its doing is pushing the slave cylinder piston further in to the cylinder, that doesn't change the travel distance on either of the cylinders. You can try to bleed the system again but I don't think that will do anything. Bleeding the system of air usually helps if your clutch is grabbing early right off the floor. From what you said it seems that your clutch is disengaging all the way since it don't grab till the paddle is most of the way up. I don't completely understand what you're trying to fix, your clutch will feel different because its a completely different pressure plate.

I'm trying to figure out why the clutch is engaging so late.

Man if I gotta pull the trans again I might just junk this thing. The headgasket is starting to go bad to and I'm starting to think its not worth all this headache. Its my dd and ive been without a car for few months now ### of all these issues as well as the city barkin at my ass about it sitting in the yard. I appreciate all the good info tho. This car has been a nightmare since I bought it.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Hey man, I don't want to make your problem sound trivial, but junking the car for a clutch issue is a bit extreme. A FWD clutch job is a walk in the park. I had to install my transmission on my AWD three times before I got the proper engagement. First the step height wasn't right (my fault for not having it verified) second time, I needed to shim the pivot ball because the flywheel had been machined so much that the geometry had changed enough to move the fork fulcrum causing release issues. The third time is finally got it right. The last two installs were in one night, by myself. It's a bi***, don't get me wrong, but every time you do it, it's a LOT easier!

But make sure you bleed the shit out of the system. Make sure there is NO air in the lines. If that doesn't fix the issue, then it's probably time to pull the transmission.

 

[Orangedsm95]

Hey man, I don't want to make your problem sound trivial, but junking the car for a clutch issue is a bit extreme. A FWD clutch job is a walk in the park. I had to install my transmission on my AWD three times before I got the proper engagement. First the step height wasn't right (my fault for not having it verified) second time, I needed to shim the pivot ball because the flywheel had been machined so much that the geometry had changed enough to move the fork fulcrum causing release issues. The third time is finally got it right. The last two installs were in one night, by myself. It's a bi***, don't get me wrong, but every time you do it, it's a LOT easier!

But make sure you bleed the shit out of the system. Make sure there is NO air in the lines. If that doesn't fix the issue, then it's probably time to pull the transmission.

I understand where ## coming from but idk if its worth it cause I'm having issues with the headgasket also. Idk anymore this car has me a lot of stress and sleepless nights.

 

[Boostdriven]

I wouldn't pull the tranny just yet. If you have a flywheel that's stepped wrong, in your case I would imagine its to deep then the only issue you're going to have with this is that your clutch disk will not last as long as it would have if the step height was correct. As the disk wears out the pressure plate moves closer to the flywheel and eventually it will be fully extended and no longer will be able to hold the clutch disk tight, this situation usually will come sooner if the step in the flywheel is deeper then needs to be to begin with. All said and done the car can still be driven, its not like your clutch is not releasing all the way causing clutch drag making you grind gear. If you have other issues with the car like the head gasket or whatever else then you might as well fix the clutch situation when you do the head job. For now you can just drive the car for what it is.

Another things I was thinking, could it be that you got used to a bad clutch problem you had before with clutch not releasing all the way then all of a sudden you throw all these new parts on it and everything is working like it should but you're just not used to it also keep in mind that after marker parts are not 100% like the factory ones and might have slight variation in design so that could be a part if why it engages the way it does. If you try to launch it a little bit and the clutch grabs like it should with out to much slipping then I wouldn't worry about it to much at this point.

 

[Orangedsm95]

I wouldn't pull the tranny just yet. If you have a flywheel that's stepped wrong, in your case I would imagine its to deep then the only issue you're going to have with this is that your clutch disk will not last as long as it would have if the step height was correct. As the disk wears out the pressure plate moves closer to the flywheel and eventually it will be fully extended and no longer will be able to hold the clutch disk tight, this situation usually will come sooner if the step in the flywheel is deeper then needs to be to begin with. All said and done the car can still be driven, its not like your clutch is not releasing all the way causing clutch drag making you grind gear. If you have other issues with the car like the head gasket or whatever else then you might as well fix the clutch situation when you do the head job. For now you can just drive the car for what it is.

Another things I was thinking, could it be that you got used to a bad clutch problem you had before with clutch not releasing all the way then all of a sudden you throw all these new parts on it and everything is working like it should but you're just not used to it also keep in mind that after marker parts are not 100% like the factory ones and might have slight variation in design so that could be a part if why it engages the way it does. If you try to launch it a little bit and the clutch grabs like it should with out to much slipping then I wouldn't worry about it to much at this point.

I'm still breaking the clutch in ive only put maybe 30 miles on the car. So I haven't even had a chance to accelerate hard or launch the car yet but even normal driving it seems to slip a little when it starts to grab. Ive smelt the clutch a few times. Do you think its worth putting the steel braided clutch line I have on and bleeding the system?

 

[T is for TURBO]

If the clutch is slipping and:

- You are sure that master is adjusted properly
- You are not running an extended slave cylinder rod
- The clutch for sits angled toward the drivers side of the car

I honestly feel that your step height is too deep