Cheap pure meth at Walmart (no HEET)

[turboglenn]

I found a product called "super tech gas line antifreeze" it's methanol and come in 4 packs of black 12 oz bottles. HEET is 1.12 right now this is 3.67 a 4 pack, so it's a little cheaper. At least for us guys who haven't found meth by teh 5 gallon bucket in our towns yet.

 

[slowgsr]

sir, what meth kit are you running? Just curious.. Im considering purchasing the AEM kit which i can get for $318 shipped and it has a resivoir.

My tuner highly recommends the kit for safety on an aggressive pump fuel tune.

He told me the most important thing with meth is a strong ignition system, because misfiring on high power pulls will put huge strain on the rods when meth is being used. He also said that you dont try to make extra power on meth then you would on normal pump, its simply used as a safety aid, and you add it to the mix once you have your 'aggressive' pump fuel tune dialed in.

the tuner is AEM certified.

Anyways, so yeah, what kit you using?

 

[dnhieu]

i use the devils own base kit for 200 bucks. i just had to go to the junk yard to get a overflow tank

 

[slowgsr]

200 isn't bad and ive done some reading on the kit, seems like a great setup.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get it for $200? Was this new or used, thanks. Im trying to save money anywhere i can.

 

[turboglenn]

i use the devils own base kit for 200 bucks. i just had to go to the junk yard to get a overflow tank

Devilsown base kit for the win...AEM is overpriced on EVERYTHING they sell except wideband o2's for some reason

I have my disputes with AEM, I'll tune their EMS systems, but i wouldn't recommend one unless it was the plug n play and even then i have reservations. But that's not the topic.

You're tuner must not know much about meth because there's several guys here on the forums that are running near race gas tunes on pump + meth/water

The local dyno owner also told me on a supra that's in his shop, they only took out 4* of timing when switching from C16 to pump plus 50/50 meth, running 12:1 AFR and 16 PSI.

There's guys on here doing the same if not better. So do some searching on this forum using the key words "knock water meth" and search "entire posts" there's enough reading there to keep you at the PC for hours and then you'll have a damn good idea of what you're getting into! I still needed and am asking for tips and advice on it because this is my first experience with a "real" meth kit.

But my car is coming along nicely. I'm back today running 20PSI, 17* locked timing, 11.5:1 AFR and my phantom knock from my other thread has disappeared as well. I turned the boost to 24 for one 3rd gear pull and got a little knock again though. I pulled over, actually decided to water down my meth with some distilled water to get closer to a 60/40 mix and that knock went away too i made 2 more pulls at 24 psi, but it was starting to roast the tires locked posi on the interstate (love the new trans with quaife!!! )and the front end was washing to the side so i started the last 2 pulls in fourth and i was oign way to fast way to soon, and shut it down and turned the boost back down to 20. I'ts still a beast at 20 and has no traction in 1,2, and someitmes 3rd... Now I'm about to tune that boost level (24) for everyday use, then see how far i can push it for when i really need the extra boost. Or see if i can just get away with out ever buying race gas again

 

[absolute_DSM]

But my car is coming along nicely. I'm back today running 20PSI, 17* locked timing, 11.5:1 AFR and my phantom knock from my other thread has disappeared as well. I turned the boost to 24 for one 3rd gear pull and got a little knock again though. I pulled over, actually decided to water down my meth with some distilled water to get closer to a 60/40 mix and that knock went away too i made 2 more pulls at 24 psi, but it was starting to roast the tires locked posi on the interstate (love the new trans with quaife!!! )and the front end was washing to the side so i started the last 2 pulls in fourth and i was oign way to fast way to soon, and shut it down and turned the boost back down to 20. I'ts still a beast at 20 and has no traction in 1,2, and someitmes 3rd... Now I'm about to tune that boost level (24) for everyday use, then see how far i can push it for when i really need the extra boost. Or see if i can just get away with out ever buying race gas again

Dyno......

 

[slowgsr]

He is a good tuner, i probably just didn't understand him

He has tuned a few setups on meth and 93 octane.

383 WHP GT2871R @ 18 psi/ITB/9500RPM/10.5:1CR Integra GSR
601 WHP HKS T51R KAI BB @ 18.5 psi MKIV Toyota Supra TT 6spd
520 WHP GT4088R @ 26 psi Toyota Camry V6
381 WHP GT4088R @ 10 psi Lexus IS300

Also, you should probably get off the highway doing this tuning, my loved ones could be driving there as your doing reckless tuning, and yes your type of driving is reckless, i pray to god if you get in an accident it dosen't effect any other drivers, so us all a favor and get this onto a dyno.

Thanks, its really no safer then street racing, and reputable tuner would never do countless 3rd or 4th gear pulls on any public road, well any reputable tuner in my book.

But good results anyways

 

[turboglenn]

Dyno......

We have tons of roads with miles and miles of straight highway with no cars on them, this is nebraska, home of cornfields. I ensure if and when your loved ones die and if it's from a misfortunate traffic accident, i won't be the one to blame..Not trying to be a D!ck, but i wait for open stretches where there's no traffic or i'll stop on the shouldeer and let all trffic get way ahead of me before i do a pull to any speed around the top of third. So the only people i'm endagering are myself. There's only 2 other people i will let drive so i can tune in real time, and i trust my life to their driving skills at those power levels.. TObe honest i use to love tuning at our road course when i was allowed there on off time during the week. 150mph down the striaghts was fun. plus we use to have an old airport i tuned at, but some one bought it and re-opened it

EDIT: also i have NEVER been able to duplicate "real road" or road course style loads on any dyno.. one particular case was a porsche 930 turbo track car, with a motec on it. We tuned it on the dyno anad every time it got o the straights on the track in teh 150 MPH + range it was shutting down hard and lean... Could not cuplicate it on teh dyno, but pulled it out front of the shop and made it do it in 3rd gear at 50 MPH and the speed lmit at our shop is 60 out front, Our posted speed limit is 75 on most highways, and most people run 90+ around here. I can do third gear pulls all day long and get passed by my grandma around here on the main highways


Well, after a few more test runs and loggin deep 9's on AFR and getting more knock again at 25 PSI, i need to drop the timing so i can safely lean it out properly( it may be rich knock at those AFR's) then advance the timing back up to the point of knock and figure out either what nozzle i'm going to need to run a , or if i need to change to a certain mix.

Then we'll be back to the dyno here soon and hopefully at least make 420's on 25 psi..on pump + meth. I can push huge numbers on 118 octane, i just can't afford to run it in my DD anymore with oil prices the way they are. I might say to hell with it and go E85 here REAL soon.. i dont' know yet. And for cold starting reasons i really would rather not. I could always change to a pump gas map if i was somewhere with no E85.

Then i'd be making some nice numbers and be able to go from street trim to race trim with a change of slicks, putting on a helmet and turning up the boost controller. I usually keep boost low untill needed in third gear or higher since it jsut spins in 2nd so hard.I still need to build my profec remote switch into the cruise cancel button.

I can go faster at 14psi barely spinning both tires through the quaife than i can roasting them off at 20+ psi...then come third gear, if i can hit the profec switch and not turn it off by accident (see the part about the switch above ) the car gets really fun. I never thought i'd see voer 20-21 on pump gas with no detonation, but it looks like i'm well on my way, it's just tuning and bigger nozzles

 

[turboglenn]

200 isn't bad and ive done some reading on the kit, seems like a great setup.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get it for $200? Was this new or used, thanks. Im trying to save money anywhere i can.

you get it brand new at DevilsOwn alcohol water injection- methanol the owners name is Chance, he's a great guy. order online or call and he'll get you what you need.

 

[dnhieu]

meth is where its at. i have added a rediculious amounts of timing and i would have added boost if i wasnt still on a stock headgasket and headstuds. the great thing about meth is that if you start running out of injectors you can just compensate by adding more meth! .

i have never herd of anyone knocking from having too much meth tho. the more knock i get the more meth i add! i am a compelte meth junkie and where do i sign up for classes to get off of it???

 

[turboglenn]

meth is where its at. i have added a rediculious amounts of timing and i would have added boost if i wasnt still on a stock headgasket and headstuds. the great thing about meth is that if you start running out of injectors you can just compensate by adding more meth! .

i have never herd of anyone knocking from having too much meth tho. the more knock i get the more meth i add! i am a compelte meth junkie and where do i sign up for classes to get off of it???

What size and how many nozzles for what boost and timing on yours? I think i need somehtin more than an M10 for 25psi, but i'm going to work out the AFR's on 25psi tune with low timing first anyway. Just looking for ideas, eclipse1736(might have that # wrong) says he's running an M15 and an M7 if i remember right! thats' huge, but if it make me not knock and run 25+ boost with 20+ timing. i'm all on it

WE'll see, i'm not going to speculate or bench race numbers,, but with eery free minute i get ( and i don't get many at teh post office) i am workin on the tune. So here soon we're going back to the dyno to back up the talk with another sheet!

 

[dnhieu]

aren't you the one who said that mitsu knock sensors sometimes dont actually read "real" knock??? ....

anyways, i know im going to get flamed for this but i have turned my knock sensor off completly due to horrible phantom knock. i tune off my ear and my knoledge of what the 4g63 can do. you will hear the car knock and you will see it on your plugs if its bad enough...

anyways, i use the biggest nozzle they give and run 23psi (really pushing that headgasket and headstuds) with around 23 degrees of timing. this is all with a 50/50 mix and afrs around 11.5. my buddy runs 27psi with the same nozzle on the same turbo (holset hx40) daily. nothing against you but are you sure you plugs are gaped for that kind of boost? we used to get knock like that on his car before we switched to the bpr8es with a .26 gap...

 

[rrussell]

Then we'll be back to the dyno here soon and hopefully at least make 420's on 25 psi..on pump + meth. I can push huge numbers on 118 octane, i just can't afford to run it in my DD anymore with oil prices the way they are. I might say to hell with it and go E85 here REAL soon.. i dont' know yet. And for cold starting reasons i really would rather not. I could always change to a pump gas map if i was somewhere with no E85.

This is my dilemma also.

If my town puts a station in that has E85 then I will go with it. As of now the closest E85 station is 45 miles away

So I'm looking at installing my FP 3065 turbo and a FMIC and keep running the meth kit on pump 92.

Last fall I was having great results while running my FP sleeper 16g turbo and the stock SMIC. I was running 50%water, 50%denatured alcohol and 5%acetone mix in with my 92pump fuel. Then I added timing and the car ran harder the it every did before, but our track was closed for the winter and I didn't get any times to see where I was at.

So now I will have to start over with all the new changes. But I will not run race fuel no matter what. This is my main objective this year to keep the car at full weight and to keep it on pump gas.

 

[gsxtasy]

aren't you the one who said that mitsu knock sensors sometimes dont actually read "real" knock??? ....

anyways, i know im going to get flamed for this but i have turned my knock sensor off completly due to horrible phantom knock. i tune off my ear and my knoledge of what the 4g63 can do. you will hear the car knock and you will see it on your plugs if its bad enough...

anyways, i use the biggest nozzle they give and run 23psi (really pushing that headgasket and headstuds) with around 23 degrees of timing. this is all with a 50/50 mix and afrs around 11.5. my buddy runs 27psi with the same nozzle on the same turbo (holset hx40) daily. nothing against you but are you sure you plugs are gaped for that kind of boost? we used to get knock like that on his car before we switched to the bpr8es with a .26 gap...

He doesn't have a mitsu knock sensor.

 

[turboglenn]

He doesn't have a mitsu knock sensor.

exactly!!!! thanks!

Yea, I hate Mitsu knock sensors, but i'm starting to believe the 4g63 is just a noisy bugger.

For years i tuned with no knock sensor what so ever, i just recently got a J&S unit and have been trying to study the limits of what i can do without huge amounts of knock

well, postal employee off to work

later

 

[slowgsr]

great news, glad your having such good luck with it.

When you guys say 'M10' nozzles and such, what size are these in CC/min? Tuner told me to bring the car in with 300-320cc/min nozzles should do fine for my power levels.

 

[daren_p]

great news, glad your having such good luck with it.

When you guys say 'M10' nozzles and such, what size are these in CC/min? Tuner told me to bring the car in with 300-320cc/min nozzles should do fine for my power levels.

Are you sure CC/min? Think there usually rated in ml/min & 315 ml/min should be an M5 nozzle. What are your timing & boost goals & also what are you able to currently achieve without meth? I ran with an M5 this past summer but will be upgrading to the M10 for this summer. The M5 allowed me around 4 psi more & 2-3 more degree timing vs straight pump tune.

 

[Devilsown]

slowgsr
Retail on the kits just went up from 205 to 220 when we changed the kits over to the new outside mount nozzles. They are worth the extra 15 dollars. They do cost us considerable more so thats the reason for the price increase. Here is a link to the new water injection nozzles. You can also see the cc/min and gph for each nozzle.

 

[slowgsr]

Are you sure CC/min? Think there usually rated in ml/min & 315 ml/min should be an M5 nozzle. What are your timing & boost goals & also what are you able to currently achieve without meth? I ran with an M5 this past summer but will be upgrading to the M10 for this summer. The M5 allowed me around 4 psi more & 2-3 more degree timing vs straight pump tune.

Isn't a CC the same as a ML?


I will be doing none of the tuning, boost is undetermined right now, im looking for 400awhp with 94 and meth in the spring, tuner said this shouldn't be a problem.

Im not sure how much boost it will take, im thinking somewhere around 16-17lbs because of the turbo and the setup i will be running.

Tuner also said we can wire up the meth to TPS, boost, RPM etc using AEM's spare configurable outputs, so really i dont even need the meth kit to come with the controller or map sensor? I just need a pump/lines/nozzle/resivoir. I might piece together a kit myself.

 

[daren_p]

Isn't a CC the same as a ML?


I will be doing none of the tuning, boost is undetermined right now, im looking for 400awhp with 94 and meth in the spring, tuner said this shouldn't be a problem.

Im not sure how much boost it will take, im thinking somewhere around 16-17lbs because of the turbo and the setup i will be running.

Tuner also said we can wire up the meth to TPS, boost, RPM etc using AEM's spare configurable outputs, so really i dont even need the meth kit to come with the controller or map sensor? I just need a pump/lines/nozzle/resivoir. I might piece together a kit myself.

Yes, looks like ml & cc are the same, so disregard that But yes, that would still be an M5 nozzle your looking for. What turbo are you going to be running the 16g in your profile? If this is on a stock head/IM combo, it will defently take more then 16-17 psi to see 400 awhp on a 16g. More then likely in the mid 20's range, which will obviously vary depending on your supporting mods.

 

[slowgsr]

They were the mods when i purchased the car, i haven't updated it yet, currently the car is in pieces! So engine delete could be the first mod .

I dont plan to run stock head or IM, i updated the profile with the parts im in the process of installing.. Just waiting on some timing belt pieces mainly to get the engine back in.

 

[Spades]

slowgsr
Retail on the kits just went up from 205 to 220 when we changed the kits over to the new outside mount nozzles. They are worth the extra 15 dollars. They do cost us considerable more so thats the reason for the price increase.

Oooh I am liking those new outside mount nozzles Im definitely switching over

When you guys say 'M10' nozzles and such, what size are these in CC/min?

M5 means 5 gph (gallons per hour)

CC/min x .01585 = gph

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Devilsown,
For your outside mounted nozzles, are they meant to be drilled & tapped directly into the IC pipes or do they come with a weld in 1/8" NPT bung? If so, what material are the bungs made out of (aluminum or SS)?
Thanks!

Otherwise, an interesting thread guys... I've been using an M5 nozzle for h20 only. I've just started playing around with a 50/50 meth mix... I've been looking at upgrading either the number of nozzles and/or the size My poor M5 nozzle absolutely HAS to turn on at like 5-7psi in order to help knock in it's place.


Glenn,
I looked at a local Walmart but they didn't carry the "Super Tech Gas Line Antifreeze" that you mentioned... They did have the HEET stuff though. -Any thoughts as to how to much I would use for a 50 / 50 methanol / distilled water mix? -The HEET yellow bottle doesn't list the percentages of ingredients.
Thanks!

 

[turboglenn]

HEET is pure, so what i do is take a "ratio rite" (measuring cup for mixing 2 stroke oil/gas) and i fill it up to 400ml (about a can of HEET if i remember right) and then i just add the same amount of water. I pour one meth, one water, another meth, another water..that way i can't get lost on numbers Someitmes i'm forgetful

 

[romeen]

I am considering using the washer fluid as a starting point and adding HEET to make a 50/50 mix. I'm hoping that the added meth will inhibit the formation of the deposits that some guys have experienced with the washer fluid.

If you take one gallon of -20 Supertech (Walmart brand which is approx 30% meth), divide in half and add two 12 oz. bottles of HEET to the 1/2 gallon of washer fluid it will give you right around 50/50 meth/water. This ends up being a bit cheaper and easier than buying straight meth and mixing it up.