Carbon Fiber Intake Manifold

[jdmawd]

the carbon fiber has to be attached to the TB and Head flange some how. So you're using lots of glue basically to hold the carbon fiber to the the aluminum flanges. i think ill pass but its a great idea. Good luck

 

[eXploitedGST]

Who said im using glue to hold it together? Are you just making stuff up as an excuse to put down my product?

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by eXploitedGST
Who said im using glue to hold it together? Are you just making stuff up as an excuse to put down my product?

Ok then.

What are you using to attach the carbon fiber to the aluminum flanges and vac plate under the plenum on this manifold. How is it connected? ive seen weled flanges split under boost on intercoolers and intake manifolds, please enlighten us.

 

[eXploitedGST]

there will be aluminum tubes welded to the intake manifold flange to start sticking out about 1" then the carbon fiber will be molded around these tubes complete.. the tubes will be tapered so that the carbon fiber does not simply slip off the tubes under pressure, there will be a thick coat of resin holding the carbon fiber to the aluminum (which is a VERY STRONG bong as i already have tested it) then there will be 4 holes drilled and tapped around the tubes with small bolts holding the carbon fiber to the aluminum tubes sticking out. so there will be bolts, AND resin holding it together... and i dont care if you seen crappy welds break. On that honda manifold it looks like they have a worse holding method than i do! how does that one hold together? and if you dont belive me about the the strength of the resin hold aluminum to carbon fiber together then i will let my product speak for itself.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by eXploitedGST
there will be a thick coat of resin holding the carbon fiber to the aluminum

Exactly resin/epoxy is GLUE!!! again great idea and Good luck.

 

[focusedrage]

this guy sounds like he knows a bit about what he is talking about... last time i checked our cars were not boosting hundreds of psi... the bond between a resin and a hopefuly very rough aluminum tube will be insane, and i doubt it wil break. there are lots of carbon intake manifolds... so there must be a way of doing it, the bolts sound like over kill... but its deffintly not coming out

 

[igs]

How much weight will this save? How much does the stock manifold weigh?

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by eXploitedGST
the tubes will be tapered so that the carbon fiber does not simply slip off the tubes under pressure

Tapers not needed. Do some research and use a good adhesive.

Originally posted by jdmawd
So you're using lots of glue basically to hold the carbon fiber to the the aluminum flanges. i think ill pass but its a great idea. Good luck

Are you familiar with F1 cars? Familiar with suspension they use. Typically they have pushrods to activate the bellcrank that in turn activates the shock. Some teams go as far as using a pull-rod design. This allows a lighter rod to activate the bellcrank because you are simply putting the rod in tension. You no longer have to account for buckling.

Our solarcar utilized a pull-rod F1 based suspension. As a grad student, I looked at changing our Chromoly steel pullrods to composites/bonded rods. Using E-glass or Carbon fiber and aluminum, I came up with a design that worked quite well. The adhesive I used was very high strength. Using a 3/8 dia composite rods, I bonded these to aluminum slugs that the heims ends screwed into. These rods would hold over 20K lbs before they broke. Equivalent to 6 DSM's on hanging on a rod the size of your pinky finger.

So, given the correct type of the adhesive, it will be MORE than enough hold the carbon to the aluminum.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Morphius
Tapers not needed. Do some research and use a good adhesive.



Are you familiar with F1 cars?

Are you familiar with the tools and materials required to produce parts to withstand the types of stress put on a F1 car. Do you think he has access to these same materials and tools to build a DSM intake? Am i familiar with F1 cars you ask? Nope and neither are you much past a tv set and racing mag.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Are you familiar with the tools and materials required to produce parts to withstand the types of stress put on a F1 car. Do you think he has access to these same materials and tools to build a DSM intake? Am i familiar with F1 cars you ask? Nope and neither are you much past a tv set and racing mag.

:laugh:

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Are you familiar with the tools and materials required to produce parts to withstand the types of stress put on a F1 car

Yes, on a smaller scale. A Mini-Indy. Sorry to break it to you, but with everything in this world, it's the same basic concepts applied over and over, and over.

Originally posted by jdmawd
Do you think he has access to these same materials and tools to build a DSM intake?

Materials? Yes. Tools? Yes and no. Some is done by hand, some by machine. Obviously, he won't have the access to the machinery.

Originally posted by jdmawd
Am i familiar with F1 cars you ask? Nope and neither are you much past a tv set and racing mag.

I think you missed where I was heading with the F1 relation. The suspension. and Yes, I do know my way around a suspension of that complexity.

 

[eXploitedGST]

This post was not made for people to flame each other.. i know what im doing and thats what matters..... no need to question me or other peoples intellegence. Lets keep it on track of the intake manifold.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Are you familiar with the tools and materials required to produce parts to withstand the types of stress put on a F1 car. Do you think he has access to these same materials and tools to build a DSM intake? Am i familiar with F1 cars you ask? Nope and neither are you much past a tv set and racing mag.

Your intuitive grasp of the obvious is amazing.

 

[focusedrage]

people said that man could never fly, and called the wright brothers fools... this guy is pioneering something which i know will become common place, they allready have that honda one, and there is one for an sr20... which is turbo, so i say do it

 

[Morphius]

^^^^^^^^^^ ditto. How about more positive ideas on how it can be done?


My suggestion for the flanges would be to start with a stock intake. Cut the flange for the throttle body and the head mounting flange off. People would send in their stock one for a "core".

For each flange you could do the following: Machine into the intake side of the flange a hole to allow you to press fit/bond an aluminum tube. Then you'll have your flanges for attaching the runners and making the body of the plenum.

 

[NDgsx]

Just an FYI this is a 17 year old kid with no mechanical engineering experience, hell he probably goes back to high school on Monday.
Does this mean he might not be able to make a good manifold? Not directly, but judging by his posts earlier he doesn't have a lot of automotive knowledge. He bolted a fiberglass bumper on his talon, wow impressive.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83816&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[eXploitedGST]

Well ND.. all i can say if you dont have to be some jealous prick because i can already make parts 100x better than you ever will and younger than you. and what makes you say i have no automotive knowlage? how do you put on ur fiberglass bumpers? double sided tape? hahahahah im not impressed with your post at all. And if you look at my website and goto the page on my car you can see that im doing more than "bolting on a bumper" infact im completely molding it all and painting it myself. but yet i have no automotive skill and ive been in business for over a year.. yea your right.. no automotive or engineering skill here at all.

 

[RipperXX]

I am going to stay on a positive track here and make a sudjestion about bonding the aluminum flanges to the CF.

insted of useing bolts. weld 4 pegs onto each flang. And when laying the CF mold it around and with enough layers over the peg.

No way it would come back off then. and no ugly bolts.

 

[eXploitedGST]

Also.. if anyone is looking at my profile like ND obviously was... keep in mind that was my 2nd DSM... the one on my site is my 3rd DSM. I have not updated my profile in months. that soulds like a good idea with the pegs.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by eXploitedGST
Well ND.. all i can say if you dont have to be some jealous prick because i can already make parts 100x better than you ever will and younger than you. and what makes you say i have no automotive knowlage? how do you put on ur fiberglass bumpers? double sided tape? hahahahah im not impressed with your post at all. And if you look at my website and goto the page on my car you can see that im doing more than "bolting on a bumper" infact im completely molding it all and painting it myself. but yet i have no automotive skill and ive been in business for over a year.. yea your right.. no automotive or engineering skill here at all.

I say go for it. You do have to start somewhere. I wouldn't give too much weight to any criticisms these people are offering, being negative about innovation only leads to failure and frustration. Good luck.

 

[Morphius]

Here's a quick and dirty CAD representation of what I was talking about on "using the stock intake flange"

 

[Morphius]

Maybe this will be more clear...

 

[igs]

So how much weight will this save?

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by igs
So how much weight will this save?

It'll be comparable to the weight savings you get with other aftermarket intakes. Depending on design, it could be lighter.

 

[kgt_rdr]

this sounds like a very interesting idea. i will be the first to admit that i don't know much about how carbon fiber is bonded, but to me, it sounds like the hardest part will be the manifold design. plenum volume, and runner length need to be taken into consideration(not saying you're not, just stressing the importance). i say have fun with it, and good luck. and from one younger person to another, even if it doesn't come out the way you like, you will be one of the few to have a carbon fiber intake manifold on a dsm. also, anyone that thinks a younger person can't make a contribution to the automobile world, i think it is you that has some growing up to do.

peace