Can someone help me with my tune?

[genegoesfast]

I need help! I started with evo 8 stock timing and fuel maps. I made a couple pulls and tracked down some offending cells and pulled timing twice over. I can't seem to get rid of it all. Any other suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

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[Imback]

Can i ask why you would put a evo timing map in your car?

 

[EagleTSIawd]

those fuel and timing maps would be good a starting point if you have the evo 8 MAF installed, is that what you have?

 

[genegoesfast]

I'm running a stock 2g maf though I don't see how that would matter? The maps are just for timing and fuel.

Help Gofer!

I focused the pull into a shorter log.....it might help.

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[DSM_munky_man]

Just keep pulling timing? I ran 3 different evo maps on mine, they ahd them on the wiki site for ecm link and so far the one it liked best was the evo mod.

 

[genegoesfast]

The problem is that I'm running the stock evo map and its both richer during spool up and more conservative with the timing. If I run the "mod" map it will amplify my issues with timing. Did you have to pull a bunch of timing out of the mod map to make it work?

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Some places yes and others no, let me see if I can find the log and see what I did.

 

[genegoesfast]

Cool, Thanks!

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Here are the logs
1: stock evo
2: Evo mod

the stock and mod were close, but from a brief look ove the logs, looks like some places on the stock i adjusted less on the timing, and others I had to adjust more.

 

[genegoesfast]

You have a pretty good amount of knock retard happening in the "mod" pull, more so than the "stock" pull. Did you not try to tune those knock events out?

 

[Imback]

The evo timing maps were not a base map to go off of. Further more that page on wiki was to help people using evo injectors or maf or both. Why not start out on a stock 2g timing map which is already tame. Are you fully floored during that clip?

 

[DSM_munky_man]

No, I ran run right after another to see the difference in which on I wanted to settle, and even if I tuned out knock on the stock , it wouldnt matter once I uploaded the mod maps.

 

[genegoesfast]

I was floored at first and lifted a bit pretty quickly. It was my understanding that the Evo maps would be valid because I'm running an Evo turbo (spool characteristics would be similar), the 7bolt in the 2g is very similar(slightly lower compression than the EVO(safer afr's))and that timing wouldn't be effected by the air metering device in use. I'm not trying to argue. I just want to fully understand what it is I'm doing with link. I'm assuming the defaults in the ECU are the 2g maps you're referring to? Thanks for the help!

 

[DSM_munky_man]

In my mind I wouldnt think it would matter what metering or injectors, cause evos guys upgrade those as well, I mena they may not upgrade MAF's but injectors and tune, as with us, I think it is just a bit more aggressive of a tune depending what mods you have. For my e85 I am thinking of using the GSR tune, more timing. But I am still learning too.

 

[Imback]

If you are fully floored on it during that clip it is not showing up as 100%. First thing is first calibrate your tps so it read's spot on. People normally advance timing in the lower rpm's to increase spool but with a 16g you don't need to increase spool time as it already spools quick enough. I don't see you logging LTFT lo and mid. Have you calibrated your injectors and maf so you your fuel trims are in check?

 

[genegoesfast]

Yeah sorry...it wasn't 100% throttle. I have set my tps correctly with the offset. I have also calibrated my injectors and maf by tuning the idle. I also did the closed loop cruise log by adjusting the open loop thresholds and using the combinedft tool to create a maf adjustment. I think you can view it from the log screen (ECU config(log)) The only maf adjustments are on the closed loop values though (nothing higher than 700hz)

 

[EagleTSIawd]

The evo 8 maps are not a direct fit if you dont use the evo maf or injectors as you can see on your log, so you definitely need to do the basic tunes first like said above. ECMLink website has them how to videos, they are very helpful.

Once you get your maf tuned correctly along with the deadtime, im sure you should see less knock. Just looking at your log, if you compare your aem wb with the AFratioESt you'l see once they break apart you start getting knock. On a pull those two should be just about equal, or your boost and BoostEst but since you dont have actual boost to log get the afratios close to one another.

 

[snowborder714]

You either need to stick with maps or sliders, first of all. You have 2* of timing added in your sliders across the board.

Secondly, anyone can use the Evo maps, whether they have Evo parts or not. I'm using the Evo maps (timing and fuel), as well as an Evo map for my base SD map, and have no Evo parts on my car that would affect the tune.

Post up a pull (2k to redline) with the stock Evo timing and fuel maps after you've zeroed out your timing sliders. You can do both stock and mod if you want, just make sure that's the only thing you change. Then we can see how each work and which one is better.

I personally wouldn't run a knock CEL at 1, but that's up to you. I think I have mine at 2-3.

Also, you should have the "Use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor" box checked if you don't have that style.

 

[genegoesfast]

Thanks for the reply Snowborder! The reason for the timing sliders is due to my initial timing only being 2.5*BTDC. I was trying to make up for that as I don't have a 1g CAS. Is that wrong? What effect would the "Use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor" not being selected have? Thanks again for the help!

 

[snowborder714]

Your base timing (checked with a timing light and the timing connector grounded via ECMlink) is not a steady 5*?

No, that's not really the proper way to adjust for improper timing.

And that check box could just make it run smoother.

 

[genegoesfast]

Yes, I checked the timing with a timing light with the timing connector grounded and it was steady st 2.5* The check box wasn't selected when I checked the initial timing. Would that make any difference?

 

[snowborder714]

Possibly could, as the CAS affects the spark plugs firing, which affects checking timing. But I don't know if it would help or not.

Was the 2.5* checked at the crank pulley or on ECMlink? Have you checked your crank pulley for possible separation/rotation?

 

[genegoesfast]

It was checked at the pulley and I haven't checked to see if its separated. I'm assuming it would be wobbling all over the place if it was?

 

[snowborder714]

Nope, it can separate but not separate. If that makes any sense

I had the inside of mine rotate on me so far that I couldn't even check base timing. Once I removed it and put on my brother's, it was perfectly fine. My brother took a rubber mallet to mine and with one small hit, it separated.

The easiest way to check is to put it at TDC with the dowels on the cam gears at 12 o'clock. Then look at the timing marks on the lower cover in comparison to the white notch on the crank pulley. The white notch should line up with the T on the cover. (Red line below = white notch...he didn't have it at TDC.)

 

[genegoesfast]

So this photo would be one that is separated(assuming the dowels on the cam gears are at 12 o'clock)? If everything checks out what's the correct way to fix initial timing without buying a 1g CAS?