callin car audio smart people

[gotrice55]

k like i have no clue when it comes to audio or anything..i don't understand the channels and all that stuff...

but i have two ten inch mtx subs that ouput like 300 watt each...then i wanna get two twelve inch mtx's that output 750 watt each...

what kindda amp(s) should i run? like i'll probably need at least two but like what 2 channel amps or 4?

 

[freak4jesus_bt]

I'm an Alpine man. So, I would recommend Alpine. But, stick with MTX. They have some nice sounding amps out that would be easier on the budget. And You need to run two-2 channel amps. You can get a smaller amp for the lesser powered subs, and so forth. Good luck. A good sounding stereo can make or break a ride for some people.
Brian Thornton <><

 

[jd99gst]

Two amps, for the two different power levels, but you don't necessarily need a two channel. As long as your subs are 4ohms (check the speaker information!) and you buy something decent, a mono amp will be able to handle them in parallel.

 

[VOTBLINDUB]

so u want to upp the number of watt? or add 2 more 10's?

 

[sjwelna]

So you're looking to have 2 10's initially, then ADD two 12's, or exchange the 10's for 12's...???

If you have a manual for the subs you want, we need to know the RMS wattage of the sub (this is the only figure that really matters with sub specs). Sometimes this is also called "nominal" or "musical" wattage. Peak/max wattage specs don't mean diddly.

If we can get the rms specs we can point you in the right direction for an amp.

-Steve

 

[gotrice55]

i have two 10s and im puttin two 12s in there too....to there will be 4 subs total...actually i was lookin around at prices and was thinking maybe i could throw a 15 incher in the middle

and i don't have the manual cause they were....uhhh "used" i got em off a friend don't blame me! and oh yeah i don't have a dsm so this stereo is the only thing i got goin for me

 

['96_Talon_TSi]

I wouldn't put 10's and 12's together int he same car. From what i've heard from audio knowledgable people they will not hit together, thus making for a crappy sound. *This is what i've been told, if anyone knows differently feel free to correct me*

 

[14.5 drift]

The idea is to have a broader frequency range, but some times the speakers can cancel each other out.

If you were to do some thing like 2 10's and a 15 there would be less crossover, plus with a nice eq you can tune the tens for x frequencies and the 15 for w frequencies.

It is also in your best interests to use 2 seperate amps, since you each sub will be using diferent amounts of power, and different frequencies rquire more power to play than others.

If you get the kicker 15, make sure you get it off of ebay they are selling for nothing brand new

Get it in 2 ohm's form, then buy a rockford fosgat bd1000 or bd1500 to power it (also from ebay for cheap).

I used to run 4 l7's in my pick up extra cab, with the bd series amp. 4 10 inch on one 1500, I wish I had run two bd1500's cause those speakers were hungry

As for the two tens sell them on ebay and get two more kickers, your sh1t will be off the hook


lets do a tally


260 for 2 10 inch kicker L7's

250 for 1 15 L7

850 for 2 bd1500

With this setup you will win competitions guaranteed

but if youy wanted a real system, you wouldn't waste your time or money on any of that and look into some thing likethis for 687 paired this for 729

 

[pinknuggit]

do not EVER mix and match sub sizes in your car. I don't care if you think they will play different frequencies and you can xover and EQ them to work. That's pointless. Any good 10" sub can play the low low's just as good as a 15"; it's just all in the install.

If you have two 10s and two 12s, you will have so much cancellation going on that you won't know what to do with it. However, you probably won't hear it unless you have a trained ear. You can achieve the same results without going to the trouble of putting each size woofer in there.

My opinion, you should use two 12" subs and construct a large ported box. The output of the two 12" subs in a properly tuned ported box with the right amount of unclipped power should match the output of two sealed 12's, and two sealed 10's (because there will be cancellation). Find an amp that has a RMS wattage that is equal to the RMS wattage of your subs. Max ratings are useless and do nothing but mislead you.

 

[14.5 drift]

do not EVER mix and match sub sizes in your car. I don't care if you think they will play different frequencies and you can xover and EQ them to work. That's pointless. Any good 10" sub can play the low low's just as good as a 15"; it's just all in the install.

If you have two 10s and two 12s, you will have so much cancellation going on that you won't know what to do with it. However, you probably won't hear it unless you have a trained ear. You can achieve the same results without going to the trouble of putting each size woofer in there.

My opinion, you should use two 12" subs and construct a large ported box. The output of the two 12" subs in a properly tuned ported box with the right amount of unclipped power should match the output of two sealed 12's, and two sealed 10's (because there will be cancellation). Find an amp that has a RMS wattage that is equal to the RMS wattage of your subs. Max ratings are useless and do nothing but mislead you.

Well by your scientific reasoning you better take out the 6 inch speakers in the doors too because your trained ear will hear the cancelations. Right?


but to stay on topic I will have to say that not doing different sized subs is a good idea. I should have made that clearer in my first post. Just get the jl's You'll never think twice once you hear them in your car.

 

[realitytb]

k like i have no clue when it comes to audio or anything..i don't understand the channels and all that stuff...

but i have two ten inch mtx subs that ouput like 300 watt each...then i wanna get two twelve inch mtx's that output 750 watt each...

what kindda amp(s) should i run? like i'll probably need at least two but like what 2 channel amps or 4?

we need to know if the numbers you gave us are RMS or max. Generally you want to get an amp that pushes about 100-200Watts lower than then sub RMS, and about the same for max watts. Also, dont get subs that can handle alower amount of resistance (ohms) with an amp that is rated at a higher amount. Depending on the ohm's of both the amp and subs, and what kind of box you get, will determine how you should wire it. I recommend a folded horn ported box for your twelves, and for an amp, go rockford fosgate. Post detailed specs about your system so we can help you our more.

 

[gotrice55]

shit you guys know your shit...

after reading all that...i probably will sell the 10s...but won't get the 12s..maybe save up a bit more money and get two or if im lucky three 15s in a box that seem to be selling on ebay faily cheap...

 

[ghettosmurf]

dont even waste your time on the 15's sounds like you just want something that hits...REALLY hard . just get 2 JL 13W7's or even the 12's. depending on the car you could just have one. Like on a DSM, or something like a camaro, since they are hatches. depending on your sub design and angle the hatch can actually help to magnify the sound...1 JL 13's would make you wanna nut ur pants ...or of course the Kicker series...w/e floats your boat. i would just say just 1 or 2 JLs or Kicker, w/amp then have a nice head unit, then like some nice 6x9's or just even 6" mids, then some tweets up from w/something like 4x6's

 

[pinknuggit]

Well by your scientific reasoning you better take out the 6 inch speakers in the doors too because your trained ear will hear the cancelations. Right?

no, because 6.5" speakers usually roll off at about 70-80 hz naturally, while that's where a subwoofer starts to pick up on frequency response. 10" subs and 12" subs have the same frequency response and respond to the same range, whereas a 6.5" and a 12" do not. But in THEORY, yes a 6.5" would cause cancellation with a subwoofer, only if it was playing the same frequency, which can't happen. a 6.5" speaker isn't the source for bass from a system.

we need to know if the numbers you gave us are RMS or max. Generally you want to get an amp that pushes about 100-200Watts lower than then sub RMS, and about the same for max watts.

like i said, MAX numbers are simply made to mislead people. You do Not want an amp that makes less RMS power than your sub, because that would defeat the whole point of putting an amp on it. Generally, you should get an amp that makes equal or more RMS power because that gives you what's called "headroom" in your system. Also, power ratings are not just what power a sub can take. A good subwoofer can take 2x it's RMS power easily. It's all about the signal you send it. 9 out 0f 10 people probably send their speakers and subs a clipped signal, and don't even realize it. With a clipped signal, you will not be able to send a sub as many watts as you would if the signal was clean.

 

[14.5 drift]

no, because 6.5" speakers usually roll off at about 70-80 hz naturally, while that's where a subwoofer starts to pick up on frequency response. 10" subs and 12" subs have the same frequency response and respond to the same range, whereas a 6.5" and a 12" do not. But in THEORY, yes a 6.5" would cause cancellation with a subwoofer, only if it was playing the same frequency, which can't happen. a 6.5" speaker isn't the source for bass from a system.

.

exactly why I said go with some thing like the 10/15 combo.

The ten inch subs do a great job bouncing around in the 150 - 35 hz range (Most of the subs ive heard anyway) but ive alway felt they lacked a little some thing down low. Basically if it was me I would have the tens running as my primary subs, and only run the 15's for the low low's, like 30 - 10 hz or some thing.

But in the end, I would probly just sell the whole damn thing and pick up a 12" , so I guess it's not really worth discussing

 

[14.5 drift]

like i said, MAX numbers are simply made to mislead people. You do Not want an amp that makes less RMS power than your sub, because that would defeat the whole point of putting an amp on it. Generally, you should get an amp that makes equal or more RMS power because that gives you what's called "headroom" in your system. Also, power ratings are not just what power a sub can take. A good subwoofer can take 2x it's RMS power easily. It's all about the signal you send it. 9 out 0f 10 people probably send their speakers and subs a clipped signal, and don't even realize it. With a clipped signal, you will not be able to send a sub as many watts as you would if the signal was clean.

Werd to the mutha freakin werd.

Some one else saidto buy an amp with 200 watts LESS than the speakers ability, most people should know it is ussually under powering a sub/speaker that causes them to blow. That and what you were talking about, distortion, clipped signals, and missuse.

 

[Attack Eagle]

you don't have room for 3 15s maybe not even two.

keep in mind the airspace requirements for whatever subs you get.

if you are a sub abuser, ditch the mtx and get JL JBL or Kicker. Ive seen too many MTXs with the surrounds blown all the way around... so many so that we don't carry MTX anymore.

2 l5 or l7 kickers 10's (tighter) or 12's (deeper) but don't "attack" as tightly...

or on a budget
get 3 compVR 10"s... use 3/4" MDF or HDF or appleply to build the box, and make sure each sub is in its own enclosure. VRs play almost as hard as the square l5s but cost half retail and even less if you are buying additional components (amp box install) a most shops. I just did a box under the seat of a 98 f150 ext cab, super small box 2 8" VRs and it hit really hard and tight on only 200 watts.

Either way they will hit ridiculously hard.


as fpr what ohm to get, that depend s on the amp... preferably you have a nice 600+ monoblock amp that is at least 2 ohm stable... vrs can play on less power than the l5 l7s can and can handle almost as much if the box is on the small side and its a nice clean distortion free signal w/o a bunch of bassboost loudness etc on it.

 

[gotrice55]

well of course i would be puttin 6x9s in the doors...and since its a 4dr im gonna put 4 of em in....maybe i'll go with the whole JL idea....sounds sweet i'll look into it....and whoever said i wouldn't have enough space...i don't have a dsm if you look at one of my previous posts...the trunk is huge it'll fit like 2 18s if i really wanted

 

[realitytb]

Werd to the mutha freakin werd.

Some one else saidto buy an amp with 200 watts LESS than the speakers ability, most people should know it is ussually under powering a sub/speaker that causes them to blow. That and what you were talking about, distortion, clipped signals, and missuse.

going 200 under the max rms and max watts of the sub isnt hardly underpowering. go to jl audio's website and look at the RECOMMENDED amp size for certain subs. underpowering is only going to hurt the sub if you are severely underpowering it, and then tryng to turn it up louder than the amp can push, causing distortion and blowing your sub. about 200 less and you will be perfectly safe, not ruin the subs warrenty, and get the best quality sound out of your subs. So yes, underpowering does cause problems, but only SEVERE underpowering. But going too close to the absolute most the sub can handle is not good, and will void your warrenty if it blows. believe me, i know. I had some JL w3's and had a rockford amp pushing the rms perfect, and it was close to the max of the subs. Well, one of them got blown, so i sent it back, and JL Audio told me to jump off a cliff, because that number they give is the MOST the sub can take, not the BEST AMOUNT that it should handle. For the best sound, go with 200 below, or 100 below both of the numbers they give you for RMS and MAX.

 

[realitytb]

like i said, MAX numbers are simply made to mislead people. You do Not want an amp that makes less RMS power than your sub, because that would defeat the whole point of putting an amp on it. Generally, you should get an amp that makes equal or more RMS power because that gives you what's called "headroom" in your system. Also, power ratings are not just what power a sub can take. A good subwoofer can take 2x it's RMS power easily. It's all about the signal you send it. 9 out 0f 10 people probably send their speakers and subs a clipped signal, and don't even realize it. With a clipped signal, you will not be able to send a sub as many watts as you would if the signal was clean.

somehow i think the 2x RMS is bullshit, otherwise what is the point of putting the RMS where the factory rates it at? think about that. you NEVER want to go over the RMS rating. Your sub will sound like shit, and wont last near as long. the factory gives you those numbers for reasons. Only competition subs are generally under rated. For a normal sub like pioneer premiers or jl audio subs, DONT go over the rms. like i said before, you will void the factory warrenty, and your sub will sound like shit. Its all in the box, and how you wire your system. Ive seen so many good matched subs and amps with perfect boxes, WASTE people like you with the biggest sub they can find, with the biggest amp. Just because you have a big amp or a sub with a huge power rating doesnt mean its going to be loud, or sound good. Again, the factory gives you those numbers for the best performance of the sub. If you go over the rms, your digging yourself a hole.

 

[14.5 drift]

I think you missunderstood me. I was also refering to rms power. So long as your rms wattages are closely matched, and the maxes aren't too far off (not as important to me as alligning the rms uotputs) you should be fine.

But saying some thing like 200 watts less is way too vauge of a statement, for instance if he went and bought a bunch of 10 inch w0's, that only require 300 watts, trying to run 4 of them on a 400 watt amp would be ill advised, you see what I mean? I think we are saying the same things though

 

[realitytb]

I think you missunderstood me. I was also refering to rms power. So long as your rms wattages are closely matched, and the maxes aren't too far off (not as important to me as alligning the rms uotputs) you should be fine.

But saying some thing like 200 watts less is way too vauge of a statement, for instance if he went and bought a bunch of 10 inch w0's, that only require 300 watts, trying to run 4 of them on a 400 watt amp would be ill advised, you see what I mean? I think we are saying the same things though

ooo ya i did misunderstand. Sorry
I get your point. I guess i was thinking more in the lines of 1 sub 1 amp. But ya, we are saying the same basic things, just different circumstances.

 

[pinknuggit]

somehow i think the 2x RMS is bullshit, otherwise what is the point of putting the RMS where the factory rates it at? think about that. you NEVER want to go over the RMS rating. Your sub will sound like shit, and wont last near as long. the factory gives you those numbers for reasons. Only competition subs are generally under rated. For a normal sub like pioneer premiers or jl audio subs, DONT go over the rms. like i said before, you will void the factory warrenty, and your sub will sound like shit. Its all in the box, and how you wire your system. Ive seen so many good matched subs and amps with perfect boxes, WASTE people like you with the biggest sub they can find, with the biggest amp. Just because you have a big amp or a sub with a huge power rating doesnt mean its going to be loud, or sound good. Again, the factory gives you those numbers for the best performance of the sub. If you go over the rms, your digging yourself a hole.

you, sir, are a tool. You do not know what you're talking about. I'm only in my Third year in college, AUDIO ENGINEERING degree.. Cough up some real world experience to back up what your'e saying. I've been competing in usaci spl AND sq since 1998, and have a bookcase of trophies to back it up. I've been working with and learning about speakers and their applications since i was fresh out of high school.

Like i said, the COMMON listener does not have the Proper equipment to tune a system, and they just do it by ear. If you can get your hands on an oscilloscope, you will be able to rid your system totally from clipping. With no clipping present in the system, your subs WILL handle UP TO (notice i said up to) 2x the RMS rating. I didn't say that every sub will handle 2x it's RMS. You obviously have never heard of the term "HEADROOM".

The factory rates the subs at a Conservative RMS rating so that stupid average listeners like yourself won't blow every sub they own. If you rate a sub at 500 watts RMS, yet it can really take 1000RMS, you will have less average listeners with failing subs. Notice how 95% of a company's sub has a MAX rating (which is useless) that is approx. 2x the RMS?? DUHRRRR!! Understand? You started off your response with "Somehow, i THINK....", yet you go on to declare your point as if it was rock solid. I've been dealing with the same kind of dumbasses my whole life who are too ignorant to even know better.

I don't even know why i'm wasting my time on some little punk who knows nothing about audio and thinks he is right.

I have NEVER EVER blown one speaker i've owned... EVER....
here's a list of the past setups i've ran, and the power i sent them.

1999 SPL:
Three JL 10w0-4's sealed (RMS RATING OF 125 WATTS)
cadence z7000 putting out approx. 1100 watts @ 1.4 ohms.
That's ~366 watts PER SUB.. I ran this setup for the WHOLE SEASON, and i got two second place and two first place trophies. highest SPL was 148.5.

2000 SPL:
Three Audiomobile EVO DVC4's (300 RMS rating), each in 1.0 ft3 ported box, tuned to 55 hz.
two DEI 1100D's Strapped, putting out roughly 2400 watts.
That's 800 watts PER SUB. This setup lasted me roughly 8 months, and won me three 1st place trophies, and a run at the usaci regional finals. highest SPL was 152.8

2000 SQ:
same sub setup as above.
rockford 600a4 running OZ 180CS components (Which are rated at 150 RMS), which gave each side approximately 340 watts. This one spanned the same 8 months as above, and won me one second place basic consumer trophy.

2001 SPL:
Ground Zero nuclear 15", (1200 RMS), 5.4 ft3 ported box, 180 ft2 port area, tuned to 47hz.
two Dei 1100D's strapped from last year, roughly 2400 watts. won me FOUR first place trophies with a max spl of 158.5 (outlaw). Also got fourth runner up at the midwest regionals.

2002 SPL:
TCSounds (www.tcsounds.com) prototype 15" subwoofer, (1700 RMS rating), QUAD 1 ohm coils, 4.5 ft3 sealed box. FOUR jbl bp1200.1, roughly 5200 watts, max SPL of 154.0, won two second place trophies, and earned western arkansas highest legal SPL with a sealed enclosure. lasted 7 months and had over 30 burps.


Now tell me how i'm able to push my subs past their RMS Rating? did i happen to get some freak sub(s) three years in a row that will magically handle more than thier rated power? NO.

The point i'm trying to make is that your little assumption is 100% WRONG. The more power a sub gets, the better it will sound, and the louder it will get to the point where the thermal efficiency of the voice coil goes down. People like you who do not know what they are talking about do not need to contribute to this thread. People telling me that a sub will not take over it's RMS, and other people saying that a sub needs 200 watts less than it's RMS are simply insane. It all boils down to experience. Any great sound enthusiast knows that it's ALL IN THE MOFO'N INSTALL!!!!

 

[pinknuggit]

going 200 under the max rms and max watts of the sub isnt hardly underpowering. go to jl audio's website and look at the RECOMMENDED amp size for certain subs. underpowering is only going to hurt the sub if you are severely underpowering it, and then tryng to turn it up louder than the amp can push, causing distortion and blowing your sub. about 200 less and you will be perfectly safe, not ruin the subs warrenty, and get the best quality sound out of your subs. So yes, underpowering does cause problems, but only SEVERE underpowering. But going too close to the absolute most the sub can handle is not good, and will void your warrenty if it blows. believe me, i know. I had some JL w3's and had a rockford amp pushing the rms perfect, and it was close to the max of the subs. Well, one of them got blown, so i sent it back, and JL Audio told me to jump off a cliff, because that number they give is the MOST the sub can take, not the BEST AMOUNT that it should handle. For the best sound, go with 200 below, or 100 below both of the numbers they give you for RMS and MAX.

oh LOOK!!! we have a WEBSITE audio enthusiast!!!! Any audio enthusiast knows that you don't base what you think a sub will perform from the Manufacturer's website!! That's like going to the Dealership each time something is wrong with your car and having them give you advice. We all know dealerships aren't the most honest/smart places to go for your car needs, and Manufacturers websites are the same way.

"I had some JL w3's and had a rockford amp pushing the rms perfect, and it was close to the max of the subs. Well, one of them got blown, "

Only n00bies blow subs!! Have you noticed that the MAX rating of a sub is usually 2X the RMS rating!! you were sending your subs 2X their RMS, yet you are being hypocritical and advising Against doing it. Only one of your subs blew, so the other one(s) didn't. That means they withstood 2x their RMS rating, which is contradicting everything you've said so far about power.

"because that number they give is the MOST the sub can take, not the BEST AMOUNT that it should handle. For the best sound, go with 200 below, or 100 below both of the numbers they give you for RMS and MAX"

refer to my first reply. for best sound, you want to send the sub a CLEAN SIGNAL. it has NOTHING to do with power. A 300 RMS sub will sound TONS better and be TONS louder with 600 watts of pure Unclipped, clean signal better than getting 100-200 watts of average-joe-listener power.

 

[pinknuggit]

exactly why I said go with some thing like the 10/15 combo.

The ten inch subs do a great job bouncing around in the 150 - 35 hz range (Most of the subs ive heard anyway) but ive alway felt they lacked a little some thing down low. Basically if it was me I would have the tens running as my primary subs, and only run the 15's for the low low's, like 30 - 10 hz or some thing.

But in the end, I would probly just sell the whole damn thing and pick up a 12" , so I guess it's not really worth discussing

different strokes for different folks, i guess.

i've seen a guy who pulled off two 10's/one 15", but it took too much xover, EQ, and tuning to be worth the results. Every single one of my 10" subwoofers i've used (alot) have been in an enclosure that extends below 30 hz. Heck, i even had an 8" mtx blue thunder extreme in a ported box tuned to 26 hz. :laugh: personally, i make it a point to utilize the most out of my subwoofers, which means tuning them to the resonant freq. of the driver itself or lower.