Bw s259 on the Dyno

[bastard dsm]

i know what the problem is........you didnt buy my manny .. that sucks man, hope you find out what the problem is.

 

[We're on Boost]

Yeah, seems like 500 mustang hp should be possible.
I thought the 455hp you got before was on that other dyno?
My benchmark for mustang dyno numbers on the 4g63 with S256-S259 turbos are the 2 threads done by Keith-Pure Tuning in evom. His only .70 a/r testing was done on a 2.3 liter however. But all his other runs were on a 2.0 liter. You've probably seen those but I'll post links if you want! He was using an AEM EMS, non-stock intake manifolds, and a Full-Race tubular exhaust mani. Both a/r's were T3. Variety of fuels. Hella good testing by Keith.

95 degrees is pretty damm hot though.

Gary

 

[bling5tatus]

Did you log the runs?

 

[dsmmatt28]

Yeah, seems like 500 mustang hp should be possible.
I thought the 455hp you got before was on that other dyno?
My benchmark for mustang dyno numbers on the 4g63 with S256-S259 turbos are the 2 threads done by Keith-Pure Tuning in evom. His only .70 a/r testing was done on a 2.3 liter however. But all his other runs were on a 2.0 liter. You've probably seen those but I'll post links if you want! He was using an AEM EMS, non-stock intake manifolds, and a Full-Race tubular exhaust mani. Both a/r's were T3. Variety of fuels. Hella good testing by Keith.

95 degrees is pretty damm hot though.

Gary

Post the links. No this was on the same dyno. I did however put down 483 on a dyno jet last year@28 psi. I'm going to look over everything. I was for sure I would have put down at least 500. My ass dyno tells me otherwise.I don't know these things can be frustrating.

 

[We're on Boost]

Here's the S259 testing:

Pure Tuning Borg Warner S259 Dyno Results! - evolutionm.net


Here's the earlier testing with a S256. One of the cars in this link had the .70 housing:

BorgWarner S256 Dyno Results! - evolutionm.net

Which way does your butt dyno tell you? 500hp or 450 hp?

Gary

 

[dsmmatt28]

Here's the S259 testing:

Pure Tuning Borg Warner S259 Dyno Results! - evolutionm.net


Here's the earlier testing with a S256. One of the cars in this link had the .70 housing:

BorgWarner S256 Dyno Results! - evolutionm.net

Which way does your butt dyno tell you? 500hp or 450 hp?

Gary

My ass dyno tells me 500. I raced a shleby gt 500 from a 60 roll and I put it on his ass.. I duno man maybe the dyno is messed up.. I'm thinking about going over to a dyno jet and see what's up.

 

[We're on Boost]

.. I'm thinking about going over to a dyno jet and see what's up.

That would be interesting.
The run today, was there a CF, like CF=SAE or some number? Or was it uncorrected?

Gary

 

[dsmmatt28]

No I don't see a correct number on the sheet..

 

[Steve93Talon]

Today it was about 95* in the shop last time it was 20* I dont know how much of difference that would make.

We dyno'ed my friend's car on a 90 degree day, and he made like 480whp uncorrected and 506whp SAE corrected. On the same dyno with my car, on a 25-30 degree day I made 457whp SAE corrected and 479whp uncorrected. So to answer your question, that much of a temp change could make a huge difference if they're not applying a correction to compensate.

 

[T9S1i]

I took my car out to the track with the numbers i posted a page back (well a link i posted last page) and it was in the 80's and my car was knocking and slow as hell. i had to pull a bunch of timing and the car just wasnt that fast and wasnt making the power it was on the dyno.

I kept making pulls as i got closer to home and the car was progressively getting faster.
(***I live in san francisco, cold and foggy at all times...think london or something***)
Once i finally got back in the heart of the city and exited the freeway i did a quick 2nd gear pull and holy $hit... there was my power again!!! It was a night and day difference.

So i think heat does make a difference. You arent getting as dense of air, things heat soak quicker, all around you wont make as much power IMHO.

 

[We're on Boost]

^Yeah man^
From Steve's numbers it looks like the diff between 30deg and 90deg is about 50 hp or about 10%. And it would be even more if you are tuned for cold, and then go run in hot without retuning specifically for it like what Danny was describing.

Gary

 

[tkelly27]

I've heard numbers in the 420 range, but that is just a rumour... Could be boost leaks from the MAF,

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/log...er-gm-maf-install-please-help-dsmlink-v3.html

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - GM MAF Sensor 3.0"

The MAF was never intended to be blow through. Butt dyno aside, your tune will be more consistent with a speed density setup. I don't get bogging, slowing, any of that BS when the temps change from snow in the winter, all the way up into the 90's like it is now. My car pulls hard, all year long. I'm not using link either, link is for suckers.

If your tune changes on your trip from the dyno to home, you might be a sheep : D

 

[airmail96]

^^ I think I know what your running .

 

[dsmmatt28]

Ok so after so looking around the car... The cas was not set to 5*tdc was at around 3*. Also I was losing Fp for sure.. So after looking around this is what I found. Also reivewing the logs. I see i hit 23 counts of knock and then again around 7200 I hit 43 counts. Timing was killed to 11*. Im thinking me losing fp had something to do with it.

 

[We're on Boost]

Oww-ee, is that the tube that comes up from your fuel pumps?

Gary

 

[We're on Boost]

My car pulls hard, all year long.

Aww, I know why your car runs good - it's that BMW blow-off valve

Seriously, what does a "vented 7 series bimmer blow off valve" look like? The 7's have always been NA as far as I know.

Gary

 

[dsmmatt28]

Oww-ee, is that the tube that comes up from your fuel pumps?

Gary

yes it is

 

[bling5tatus]

23 counts of knock at a lower rpm is not going to be a fuel issue unless your fuel is just completely clamped off and you would have had a lot more major problems than just knocking a little....

I'd suspect the tune is off for the 23 counts, you didn't mention what rpm that happened at and I find it kinda difficult to cope w/ doing dyno pulls w/o logs. I'm sure many here could help you figure your tune out if you posted logs. That crimped line would definitely be an issue though up top i agree.

 

[tkelly27]

^^ I think I know what your running .

: D You run it already, which means you know what throttle response feels like.

Aww, I know why your car runs good - it's that BMW blow-off valve

Seriously, what does a "vented 7 series bimmer blow off valve" look like? The 7's have always been NA as far as I know.

Gary

BMW 1985 745i Turbo

That is a turbo BMW. I hadn't ever heard of one either! They come with a KKK K27 turbo, 40 some odd mm bov, external WG, and other things. I saw an ad on craigslist "turbo, WG, BOV $200" figured that was better than ebay. Met up at the mall and these russian dudes pulled up in a cadillac and had a trunk full of parts. I didn't dare ask questions, just forked over the cash. Sold the turbo and down pipe for more than I paid for the whole setup,

The BOV is a POS, it doesn't vent until you hit vacuum, no matter what. The design is basically a huge RFL turned on it's side. It definitely scares the babies when it lets go, but getting surge when going from 15psi to 8psi is lame!

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/Photo0101.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/Photo0095.jpg
Open
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/Photo0097.jpg
Closed
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/tkelly27/Photo0099.jpg

When I get my tial knock off I'll go ahead and sell the whole setup for more than I paid for the turbo : P

 

[We're on Boost]

The BOV is a POS, it doesn't vent until you hit vacuum, no matter what ... getting surge when going from 15psi to 8psi is lame!

Yeah as a matter of fact I'm getting that lately and that's what I'm going to be doing this afternoon - take my blow-off valve apart and clean it up and take a shim out of it. It's acting like it is sticking or something. It is a Turbo XS but not an rfl. If it still works crappy I'll be interested in following up to see how you like your Tial knock-off.

Thanks for that BMW info! I see it was a euro only model. I can see it I guess, kuz early or mid 80's was when F1 engines were turbo. As I remember, the BMW F1 engine was supposed to be 1500 hp. For some reason they ran them on gasoline which was a problem. BMW supposedly made their own synthetic gasoline for their F1 cars!

Gary

 

[dsmmatt28]

Well did a compression check. 150 145 130 130 this is on a 9:1. Which is low should be around 180ish at least. I know the HG is pushing coolant under boost. So Im not sure how much that is going to effect the compression. So should I just pull the pistons and re hone the cylinders and new rings and bearings just give it a freshen up? Or build a new motor? Money is tight right now so what do you guys think I should do. This motor has about 20k miles and they are hard miles. 20+ psi on a big16g, fp red,s256 and now a s259. So you can say I have beat on this motor.I dont want to just replace the hg and then I still have the same problem. I guess I would only be out around 150 bucks for the Hg and resurface the head and see if it fixes the compression. If it doesnt then I know I will have to pull the motor. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bastard dsm]

150 is low for a 9.0 motor, it could be the hg or your gauge. i would take off the head and if the cyl walls look good and the pistons are not jacked then fix the hg and try again. dont use a thicker hg
when you put it back together.

 

[tkelly27]

Yeah as a matter of fact I'm getting that lately and that's what I'm going to be doing this afternoon - take my blow-off valve apart and clean it up and take a shim out of it. It's acting like it is sticking or something. It is a Turbo XS but not an rfl. If it still works crappy I'll be interested in following up to see how you like your Tial knock-off.

Thanks for that BMW info! I see it was a euro only model. I can see it I guess, kuz early or mid 80's was when F1 engines were turbo. As I remember, the BMW F1 engine was supposed to be 1500 hp. For some reason they ran them on gasoline which was a problem. BMW supposedly made their own synthetic gasoline for their F1 cars!

Gary

The turboxs can be oriented in two ways. The boost can hit the bottom of the can, or it can hit the side of the can. The bimmer valve has the boost hitting the side of the can, so no amount of boost can ever open it. When it hits the bottom of the can (like all RFL's and the recurculated RFL) you just have to loosen up the spring so the total force of the difference between the pressure on top of the valve and below the valve causes it to move. My friend took the spring out of his and it works well. Open at idle, but who cares if you have it recirculated/have speed density.