Brake pad replacement -- experiences, questions.

[HALO1]

So, tonight I replaced my stock brake pads with Axxis PBR Metal Masters. w00t, right? I have a '97 GSX, and let me first say that this was my first experience with the braking system, so if I made any n00b mistakes, just set me straight rather than flame me. Also, after getting done with my fronts, I determined that it was too late to do the rears, so this post is just concerning the fronts.

(1) I jacked it up and pulled off the wheels, per standard practice.

(2) I yanked the lower caliper guide pin and swung the caliper out of my way.

(3) I removed the old pads and checked all the clips, etc. Everything seemed fine, but the pads were at about 1/4 of the new Metal Masters, so I suppose it's a good thing I swapped them.

(4) I placed the new pads in just like the old ones sat, lubed up the back, and tried to put the caliper back on--but no go. The pistons were sticking out and got in the way.

(5) I tried messing around with the pistons, but I couldn't get it to slide in, so (and this may have been a mistake?) I opened my brake fluid reservoir to allow the fluid level to fluctuate. This allowed me to shift the pistons into the proper orientation so that I could slide them back over the pads. Viola. Done. I sealed the brake fluid reservior. (Note: I'm quite aware and appropriately afraid of what happens if air gets into the braking system, but I figured that I was nowhere NEAR the brake lines at the bottom of the reservoir, so I hoped I'd be fine--correct me if not)

(6) I tightened the guide pin and repeated the steps on the other side. Everything went as planned, other than time, so I skipped the rears for tonight.

(7) I took the car for about a 2 mile drive, giving myself PLEANTY of stopping room for stop signs, etc. I have to say, two things I've noticed which are not good:

(a) A weird smell coming from the car. It smelled like something was burning. I can probably attribute this to the new brake pads (was I supposed to wash/prep them in any way..?), but I'm not 100% sure.

(b) Braking performance sucks. Now, granted, this was all city driving on a cold night, so by no means were the pads heated up, but it felt like a NORMAL CAR! Do these pads really need to heat up that much to reach their full potential, or did I do something wrong? I will say that it almost feels like my rear brakes might be doing all the stopping, and the pedal is mushier than before. Could I have gotten air into the lines? Now, again, I did have the cap off of the reservoir for about a minute total, but the brake fluid level was right up near the top the whole time. Is this a problem?

Final thoughts: barring any god-like answers from you folks, I'll probably take it into my local mechanic in a few days if this continues and update this post accordingly. I'm afraid to go out and really heat up the pads for fear that they may fail or something..

(p.s. I also installed my Optima Red Top tonight, which looks uber pretty and seems to start the car a crank or two earlier)

 

[Defiant]

Sounds like you didn't get the pistons retracted. Drive around the block and feel your wheels. If they're hot, you're binding.

And there's a bit more to the rears. Do you have a manual for this job?

 

[jtmcinder]

You don't really have to "bed" Metal Masters, but it wouldn't have been a bad idea. (In general, Metal Masters don't like heat, so it's not a question of heating them up to get them to work.) Not bleeding the system after working on it, though, is always a mistake.

Do the rears and bleed them. Then bleed the fronts.

- Jtoby

ps. caliper retractors are less than $5

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

It's orthodoxed to change your rotors along with your pads. In doing so, your new pads have a new, clean and perfectly flat contact surface. Your fresh pads won't perform to their full potential on your worn rotors, due to rotor scoring and worn-in grooves. This gives a smaller contact area for your new pads, until your pads wear-in.
(One option, if your old rotors are still in spec, is to have them turned. "Turned" means, an automotive machinist mills off fractions of a millimeter.)

The Haynes service manual does say to remove the cap from the brake fluid reservoir.
With the caliper piston problem, the service manual uses a large adjustable C-clamp, or a caliper piston tool, to push the piston back into the caliper bore. As Jtmcinder noted, it's also a good idea to bleed your brakes too. This way the system is completely fresh.

The burning smell is your new brake pads breaking-in. It will do that for a little while, and then go away. (Although, if you drive twisty backroads fast, and get on your brakes hard ALOT, then the smell will return.)

Also, buy the Haynes service manual for your car.

--------------------------
(Ok Jtmcinder, what did I say wrong now?)

 

[HALO1]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do have a service manual (well, a Chilton's anyway). My rotors are relatively new, and are very smooth to the touch with no noticable damage/scoring.

I think I'll take the advice from you all and get the job done on the rears tonight/soon, bleed the system, and see where I stand.

 

[jtmcinder]

It's orthodoxed to change your rotors along with your pads.

[snip]

(Ok Jtmcinder, what did I say wrong now?)

Maybe you're joking, trying to yank my chain, or simply very wealthy, but the idea that you have to get new rotors every time that you get new pads is one of the sillier this week ... and that says a lot. If I don't get through at least three sets of front pads per set of rotors, I change brands of rotors.

- Jtoby

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

Maybe you're joking, trying to yank my chain, or simply very wealthy, but the idea that you have to get new rotors every time that you get new pads is one of the sillier this week ... and that says a lot. If I don't get through at least three sets of front pads per set of rotors, I change brands of rotors.

- Jtoby

Jtoby, I meant that if his rotors were heavily scored, it could explain why he's not getting the braking power he wants. If you noticed, I did include turning the old rotor, if thickness was still in spec.

 

[jtmcinder]

OK, now I'm really starting to understand your posts.

When you say "there's no such thing as performance lowering springs" what you really mean is that "there are some really good performance lowering springs out there, but they are not quite as good as the springs that you can get with some coilover kits."

And when you say that "it's orthodoxed [sic] to change your rotors along with your pads" what you really mean is "it would be smart to inspect your rotors while changing your pads and, if they are in bad shape and can't be turned, then you should replace them."

How silly of me not be able to "read" the second of each of these when I see the first on the screen.

- Jtoby

ps. if I seem to be treating you like an idiot, consider what you were saying to HALO when you told him to replace his rotors if they are scored

pps. HALO: don't drink the old brake fluid, no matter how yummy it looks

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

(Wow. You're pretty passionate about this.)
I still do not have any ambiguous meanings behind what I say. I did say there are alternatives to what I said.
Also, yes, IF his rotors were heavily scored, and were below spec, then they SHOULD be replaced. (This condition was not indicated in the original post.) If the thickness is still in spec, then altleast have them turned, so as to smooth out the old surface for the new pad. (Or I could just be anal retentive.)
I do think that it's not ideal to have new pads on unevenly surfaced rotors. Wouldn't this accelerate the wear of the new pads, thus somewhat defeating the purpose of the repair?
Granted the original poster replied his rotors were in satisfactory condition, and doesn't feel or appear heavily grooved, but that's subjective analysis. What would the Mic say?


In any case Jtoby, I'm waving the white flag. Obviously you're knowledgable about cars, hence your almighty DSM WISEMAN title and red member name lettering, and I probably would ask for your help in my threads---that is, if I havn't already pissed you off too much.

-Andrew

 

[jtmcinder]

No worries. We're cool. - Jtoby