boost to redline?

[WrXeater]

i just had to ask because i couldnt find any answers on here for it..first of all i HATE my T too small and am considering swapping to a 14b..the question i am asking is if i get a 14b fully ported (including wastegate flapper) and port my manifold(2g) as well will it hold boost consistently to redline or will it run out of steam after 3rd gear? this would be with proper supporting mods of course but i had to ask because i hate being on the freeway at 65mph and downshifting to 3rd and getting no boost.

 

[waiting2bl33d]

i get plunty of boost on my ported 14b, o2 and 1st gen manifold. i hold about 13 psi from 3 till 7500 in any gear (and i'm chosing to run 13 i had it at 15 before i blew up the motor and it held till redline still if i remember correctly)

 

[DSMJim]

i get plunty of boost on my ported 14b, o2 and 1st gen manifold. i hold about 13 psi from 3 till 7500 in any gear (and i'm chosing to run 13 i had it at 15 before i blew up the motor and it held till redline still if i remember correctly)

If it blew up at 15 lbs then your doing something wrong. The motor should be able to take 20psi from that turbo. Obviously you will need supporting mods, however I ran 17psi on my 1g with no fuel mods at all what so ever and it was fine for 2 years. NOt even a fuel pump or re-wire or anything.

If something let go that low then it was a problem with something you did or a factory problem with the motor thats rare because 15psi from a 14B shold never blow up a motor.

 

[99gst_racer]

I agree with Jim. The stock 4G63 an easily handle more than 15 psi witout catastrophic failure. I was creeping to 24 psi on my old 14b through every gear. My only fuel mods were a fuel pump and regulator. My motor held up just fine - the turbo didn't last too long though.

The 14b flows a considerably large amount of air more than the T-too-small. You'll most definitely feel it on the butt dyno. Also, it should have no problem holding boost to redline. I would say the 14b is probably the best T25 upgrade for the money.

 

[ddavisaf]

True, but for a little extra cash (and a spare blown 14b......) I would do this....

18G Chra

 

[kottyking]

If it blew up at 15 lbs then your doing something wrong. The motor should be able to take 20psi from that turbo. Obviously you will need supporting mods, however I ran 17psi on my 1g with no fuel mods at all what so ever and it was fine for 2 years. NOt even a fuel pump or re-wire or anything.

If something let go that low then it was a problem with something you did or a factory problem with the motor thats rare because 15psi from a 14B shold never blow up a motor.

When i had my 14b I was also boosting around 17 psi with no fuel upgrades. Not even a fuel pump. It definately held strong to redline too.

 

[waiting2bl33d]

If it blew up at 15 lbs then your doing something wrong. The motor should be able to take 20psi from that turbo. Obviously you will need supporting mods, however I ran 17psi on my 1g with no fuel mods at all what so ever and it was fine for 2 years. NOt even a fuel pump or re-wire or anything.

If something let go that low then it was a problem with something you did or a factory problem with the motor thats rare because 15psi from a 14B shold never blow up a motor.

just to clarify i didn't say that my motor blew b/c of the boost that is was running probley...i just said that it blew up running 15-16 psi spiking to 20+ and the car has been ran all of its life and i did have supporting mods at the time it was just the cars time to go and if you've ever blew up an engine and can't put it in yourself you think...hey, i don't want to bust my a$$ at work to pay for the thing agian that all i'm saying

 

['89beretta]

Just to chime in. I've got another thread on this in the turbo section. I've got a stock 14B set to 19 psi. Drops to 14 psi by redline. Regardless of it holding max psi, I think everyone is in agreement that 15 psi on the 14b is better than 15 psi on the t25.

You might miss the quick spool up though.

 

[WrXeater]

hmm ic....well i guess then with ported 14b full 3 inch a front mount and some good old 100 octane gas should get me into the low 13's ohh and also i was wondering how much would some 264/264 cams help?

 

[99gst_racer]

hmm ic....well i guess then with ported 14b full 3 inch a front mount and some good old 100 octane gas should get me into the low 13's ohh and also i was wondering how much would some 264/264 cams help?

Low 13's will also take good driving; especially you being FWD on an open diff.....
"The most important modification is the driver"

 

['89beretta]

You better add a nice pair of slicks to that equation and hope you don't break driveline parts with the added traction. On street tires I've seen GST's go 14 flat @ 108-110. Traction is a bi***.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

[QUOTE='89beretta]You better add a nice pair of slicks to that equation and hope you don't break driveline parts with the added traction. On street tires I've seen GST's go 14 flat @ 108-110. Traction is a bi***.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe a good clutch and suspension setup topped off with a LSD might do the trick. He'll prolly just break shit with slicks.

 

[I-luv-em-all]

He wouldnt break any more shit, then a AWD launch, not spinning.

 

[Pj97GST]

Low 13's will also take good driving; especially you being FWD on an open diff.....

Mid to low 13's on a 2G fwd is a no-brainer. On street tires, stock injectors, stock intercooler, Supra pump and fpr, I was able to knock out 13.40~13.50's at 108~109 ish all day long with 2.2 60's.

This was on a mildly ported 14b and boost levels of 18~19psi.

On 8x22x15 slicks I gained et but lost a bit of top end. 13.28 @ 108.01. The slicks were entirely too small but brought the short times down to 1.9.

Just as a note of reference; the 14B will hold 21~24 psi if you ask nicely, but it's heavily out of it's efficiency range. It seems that a happy median for it is somewhere between 17~19, depending on the car and the state of tune. Mine seemed to be happiest right an 19#s

[QUOTE='89beretta]I think everyone is in agreement that 15 psi on the 14b is better than 15 psi on the t25[/QUOTE]

Well no shit... Especially since you're comparing a little bi*** turbo one that flows almost 100 cfm more @15 psi.
That's like saying that 15psi on a big 16G is better than that of a 14B at 15psi.

 

[WrXeater]

what about those cams though? slight or significant difference along with a 1g T/b swap..and im not worried tooooo much about quarter mile i just want a fast fun driver....basically when i'm lookin for some action i want my b*tch to respond like she should.

 

['89beretta]

Well no shit... Especially since you're comparing a little bi*** turbo one that flows almost 100 cfm more @15 psi.
That's like saying that 15psi on a big 16G is better than that of a 14B at 15psi.

Just pointing out the obvious for the kiddies.

 

[99gst_racer]

Mid to low 13's on a 2G fwd is a no-brainer. On street tires, stock injectors, stock intercooler, Supra pump and fpr, I was able to knock out 13.40~13.50's at 108~109 ish all day long with 2.2 60's.

Congrats on those daily 13.40's, but that is not a no-brainer. Most FWD's are not going to pull times like that. I've been to the track more to watch than race - I've seen what modded FWD DSM's are running. It takes alot of skill and practice to run a low 13 on a 14b.

On 8x22x15 slicks I gained et but lost a bit of top end. 13.28 @ 108.01. The slicks were entirely too small but brought the short times down to 1.9.

That is very interesting. If you think 22" is too small, what would you recommend running instead? Maybe a 24"? Also, is that 8" width good or would you rather go 10"? I started a thread on the subject of slick sizes not too long ago, but it got no replys.

what about those cams though? slight or significant difference along with a 1g T/b swap..and im not worried tooooo much about quarter mile i just want a fast fun driver....basically when i'm lookin for some action i want my b*tch to respond like she should.

Yes, cams are good. Many T04b guys are getting 40-60 HP from cams. They were in the low to mid 300HP range and cames are bringing them at or close to 400 HP. You wouldn't see a 40-60HP gain running a 14b, but there would be a noticeable gain.

 

[Screamin Eagle]

Low 13's is not completely unrealistic for a 14b. Hell a local here ran 12.4 on the 14b, but it will take some work. It will take some very skillfull driving also. Anything above 19 or so psi is definately out of the turbo's efficiency range. I run 16-17 psi daily with just a re-wired pump and that is pushing it. I get no knock until I heatsoak on the stock sidemount. I would recommend atleast an LSD.

 

[99gst_racer]

Low 13's is not completely unrealistic for a 14b. Hell a local here ran 12.4 on the 14b, but it will take some work.

It's not a question of if the 14b will power a DSM to a low 13. The question is: Will a 14b easily power a FWD to a low 13? I say NO. It's more of a question of the drivetrain platform, not the turbo. I'm FWD and I've ran the 14b - traction is a bi***. Hell the 14b is in the 11's now (project goodwill), but all the good 14b times are from AWD's. 99 out of 100 of your 14b powered FWD's are not getting low 13's. It's possible, but definitely not common.

 

[Pj97GST]

I would say that 13's are extremely attainable on a 14b.. Perhaps it's the fact that my car is gifted? She's always been faster than the average fwd 2G. Waaay back when I was still mostly stock, (3" catback, filter, stock flipped bov, and mbc set to 17 on a T-25) I was running consistent 14.1's @ 97~98 mph.

My first time ever to the track with the 2G, I knocked out a 14.1 with those mods... and I barely knew how to drive a fwd dsm. On my previous car, (94 GS-X) I would just run it out to about 5.5k and sidestep the clutch pedal. Obviously something that you just cannot do in a fwd. That being said, I think that it's a safe bet to say that driver skill is only about 25% of the equation.

Considering the fact that there are a few 14b powered fwds that are deep into the 11's; and practically knocking on 10's, 13's almost seem slow. Not to step into the whole awd vs. fwd debate, but how many awd's have you seen deep in the 12's if not running 11's on the stock turbo?? The turbo is plenty up to the task.. 90% of the time it's the car that's not.

WrXeater Cams will make the world of difference with the right setup. I'm only running 1G stockers, but with the combination of the other 1G stuff that I added, I picked up 13 total hp, and 7 across the rpm range. Torque only went up 4 ft/lbs across the range but I picked up 8 at the peak. Cost=$0, was it worth it? Yes. Every little bit helps. I've got a set of 264/272's that are just waiting for me to return stateside to go in, so hopefully I'll see some pretty dramatic increases.

99gst, I would definitely say that 24x10" slicks are the way to go.. The thing that prevents me from running them however is a matter of ride height. Coilovers would be the way to go, but with Pro-kits on, I'm just still too low.

There are street tires out there that will afford you decent traction on launch, but the tire isn't the only part of the formula.. Suspension setup plays a huge part.. shitty suspension, shitty traction; shitty launch = shitty e.t. it's all cohesive.

The saddest part is that I've seen cars with larger turbo's that should be very fast running piss poor e.t.s Then cars like mine step up and destroy them.. why is that? They have all the goodies to support the turbo, the driver is good enough... but wait. they're on crap tires and have some hack job suspension that just doesn't work.

I say that YES; a 14B will easily power a fwd into the low 13's. It's a proven fact... Low 13 second 14b powered fwd's are a dime a dozen in my home area. I can name over 15~20 right off the top of my head and at least a half dozen more if I gave it half a thought.

Regardless, I've been done with the 14b for quite a few now, and have moved to the big 16G. It's a great all around turbo and I'm in love with it.. Sooner or later I'll get tired of it and move on to bigger and boostier things, but for now, I'm satisfied.

Just to point out, when I was running mid 13's and even going 13.28, I was still on the 2g intake, cams and tb and the stock open diff. I never ran with the 1 stuff, nor have I dyno'd it since the addition of the 650 cc injectors or big 16G that I'm now running. As far as LSD is concerned... I've heard that you see pretty wierd shit and it lasts too long.... Seriously,,, not really a priority at the time.. perhaps when I send my next broken trans. out to Shep for a re-build.

 

[99gst_racer]

Pj97GST - Your part of the world is unparalleled to the rest. If you look at this site's FWD 14b times you'll notice that it kinda contradicts your statements. There is one person running 11.2, one person running 13.1 and one running 13.9. Most are in the 14's and some in the 15's.

Now with all the FWD people on this site that are running the 14b, you'd think that if it was easy to run a low 13 or faster, there would be more than 2 people doing it. It's not impossible to do, just uncommon everywhere except where you are from, i guess.....

Driver skill is much much more than 25% of the equation. Especially on a turbocharged, FWD, 5 speed. If you put someone that has never drag raced before in the seat of a consistant 8.8 car, they will probably run 12's. You have to have everything just right; reaction times, 60 ft. times, launching at the correct RPM and throttle %, slipping the clutch correctly, etc......

Making a car fast is the easy part. Driving it to perform to the best of it's ability takes driver skill, time, and practice.

 

[jetdriven]

I ean a 13.77~101 with a stock 93 AWD talon with nothing more than a test pipe, MAFT, 22 PSI and a clutch that slipped so bad in 2nd it was on the rev limiter completely through second gear.

Buddy of mine same day ran a 13.5 in his 93 AWD with nothing more than a stock topline rebuilt 7-bolt, walbro, ebay clutch and 2.5" crush bent exhaust. No logger, tuning, or anything. no tailwind and in 95 degree 85% humidity weather.
he has since gone 12.9 with a E316G and MAFT-dejon upper pipe., still on the sidemount.

 

[XtReMeToYz]

Low 13's is not completely unrealistic for a 14b. Hell a local here ran 12.4 on the 14b, but it will take some work. It will take some very skillfull driving also. Anything above 19 or so psi is definately out of the turbo's efficiency range. I run 16-17 psi daily with just a re-wired pump and that is pushing it. I get no knock until I heatsoak on the stock sidemount. I would recommend atleast an LSD.

I believe my best on the 14b was 12.98@105 or so. Its definitely doable, but I was over boosting the shit out of it, and lucky enough to keep the air cool.

 

[2gredspyder]

my best so far is a 12.9 at 101.88. On another day i upped the boost and trapped 104 but the track was damp and i couldnt get a good launch. i should be able to run a 12.7 with this turbo. That was on racing gas. on pump i managed a 13.2

 

[99gst_racer]

13's are easy

I believe my best on the 14b was 12.98@105 or so. Its definitely doable.

Yes, but you guys are AWD. The biggest argument isnt the performance of the 14b (it's obviously been proven), but rather the performance of the 14b on a FWD platform.