Blown Clutch?

[TSiWarrior]

I finnaly got my tranny off. It was a pain because I didnt happen to see the bolt above the starter or the one adjacent to the waste gate acutator that was holding the plate. Anyway I get everything off and glance at the pressure plate (I never owned a manual before) and I noticed the "fingers?" were laying flat. I've seen a good pressure plate before and thoes fingers were angled outward towards where the throw-out bearing would be. Im wondering if thats normal or how to tell if the sucker is blown. I'm also wondering while i've got everything torn apart is there some tips, tricks, secrets, mods, or general maintaince type stuff I should do, or anything I should inspect or check out while that tranny is out.

 

[GTM]

I finnaly got my tranny off. It was a pain because I didnt happen to see the bolt above the starter or the one adjacent to the waste gate acutator that was holding the plate. Anyway I get everything off and glance at the pressure plate (I never owned a manual before) and I noticed the "fingers?" were laying flat. I've seen a good pressure plate before and thoes fingers were angled outward towards where the throw-out bearing would be. Im wondering if thats normal or how to tell if the sucker is blown. I'm also wondering while i've got everything torn apart is there some tips, tricks, secrets, mods, or general maintaince type stuff I should do, or anything I should inspect or check out while that tranny is out.

Diaphragm clutches will be flat when new unlike a finger pressure plate. As they wear they will rise up and you will get a stiffer pedal though the actual clamping pressure will remain close to the same until almost worn out.

To check the disk you will have to remove the pressure plate which you should mark so you get it back to it's original mount. You will have to check a manual for disk wear limits, once you have them use an open end wrench as a go-no-go gauge when measuring the thickness.

So why did you pull the tranny?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[TSiWarrior]

I dropped the tranny because it was making some random noise, wouldnt shift, wouldnt go even if it was in gear. The drain plug managed to fall out, even though I checked it a matter of days before it happend and it was torqed to spec. I've got a newer tranny with a busted 2nd gear im putting in today. It's enough to get me around town and out to find a job so I can take my tranny up to team rip. Again if there is anything I can check or do before I put it back on, like mods etc etc please post them before I start bolting stuff back up..


--edit
I just found a part, its very small metal pice with 4 flanges and a tiny hole in the middle, it's holding a small spring in center. The flanges of the small metal pice look to be holding the spring in, if unbent it would look like a small + sign with a circle and hole in the middle. It was laying next to my slave cylinder if that helps.


Anyone know any tricks to getting this tranny back on nice and easy? I'm doing it solo with only 1 jack to use. =/

Thanks for the help wisemen!

 

[GTM]

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Again if there is anything I can check or do before I put it back on, like mods etc etc please post them before I start bolting stuff back up..
...
What was that washer mod to get the clutch to grab earlier?
...
--edit
I just found a part, its very small metal pice with 4 flanges and a tiny hole in the middle, it's holding a small spring in center. The flanges of the small metal pice look to be holding the spring in, if unbent it would look like a small + sign with a circle and hole in the middle. It was laying next to my slave cylinder if that helps.

Anyone know any tricks to getting this tranny back on nice and easy? I'm doing it solo with only 1 jack to use. =/

Thanks for the help wisemen!

You are welcome.
About the only mod that I would endorse would be to add the 1/16" washer under the fork pivot ball. (last picture down)

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch.htm

Things to pay attention to consist of the input shaft sleeve/guide which is part of the transmission bellhousing and the T/O bearing. This needs to be cleaned and degreased, use powdered graphite or Teflon lube for grease will collect clutch dust and can cause it to bind. Torque the pressure plate evenly a little at a time using an Xing type pattern.

As for the part you found I'm not a DSM expert, it however sounds like it could be a spring thrust washer associated with your shifter cable ends. You might look at those associated parts and look for some wear pattern where this might have caused unique matching marks. You could take it to a dealer's parts dept and hopefully get a confirmation if you don't find a detailed parts picture or someone with more specific knowledge.

Bummer about the oil plug falling out. You might ask them to chase the threads with a tap while it's apart so it doesn't happen again.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[TSiWarrior]

The disk has chippend corners and edges, looks like it's about to crumble apart im assuming this isnt normal. There still is about 80% of the material left on each pad and the pad thickness is maybe that of a penny above the rivets.... Can i put it back together and get like a couple months out of it?

 

[GTM]

The disk has chippend corners and edges, looks like it's about to crumble apart im assuming this isnt normal. There still is about 80% of the material left on each pad and the pad thickness is maybe that of a penny above the rivets.... Can i put it back together and get like a couple months out of it?

A picture is worth 1000 words... if the mating faces do not have burn marks (pressure plate or flywheel) these will appear as elliptical spots 3/8"-1/2" usually and may have small cracks.

The disk should have no cracks or charred areas, and nothing should break off the edges. Use a small sanding block made from a disk brake pad and 50 git paper sand the disk and mating faces at a tangent. You are just cleaning it up and removing any glaze which will encourage slipping. You need to get the thickness measurement and check as I described. Inspect the center hub, make sure the springs are not broken or show excess wear, there will probably be 3-4 limit slots with large anchor rivits, inspect these for wear and make sure the floating hub portion has not been hitting the stops.

I don't know what to make of the "chippend corners and edges" without seeing them, just could be sloppy work by the maker or if the pilot shaft had so much sideways play it allowed the disk to hit parts of the pressure plate... ?? If it's just cosmetic damage then it should last a couple of months till you get the tranny back and make the swap again.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[TSiWarrior]

-Edited because of accidental double post-

 

[TSiWarrior]

Well the chips are about 1/2" big on some of the corners of the pads, there is cracks on most pads, and look pretty roughed up... Everything else is just fine by the looks of things, I dont know who made anything that belongs to my clutch. The only thing I can find about them is a symbol like this " ={DK}= " on the pressure plate. The disk is a 6 puck, I was told by the person I bought the car from it was a copper 6 puck but nothing looks copper or even copper fiber/copper anything. I was also told that the pressure plate was a 3200lb.... It's red in color with the DK on it.


The tranny wouldnt get into any gear (massive grinding and horrrible noise) when I took it off, I was told the clutch was fine. If it really is the disk that is bad then the clutch should have still disengaged, correct? deeming the tranny as the overall problem?

With what i've been able to describe you think I should give it a go to see if the car can still run for a month or two while I find the funds to get a new atc kit or something simular?

Thanks again wisemen!

 

[GTM]

Well the chips are about 1/2" big on some of the corners of the pads, there is cracks on most pads, and look pretty roughed up...
...
the person I bought the car from it was a copper 6 puck but nothing looks copper or even copper fiber/copper anything. I was also told that the pressure plate was a 3200lb.... It's red in color with the DK on it.


The tranny wouldnt get into any gear (massive grinding and horrrible noise) when I took it off, I was told the clutch was fine. If it really is the disk that is bad then the clutch should have still disengaged, correct? deeming the tranny as the overall problem?

With what i've been able to describe you think I should give it a go to see if the car can still run for a month or two while I find the funds to get a new atc kit or something simular?

Thanks again wisemen!

You must _not_ use the disk!!! It is history, I wouldn't guarantee it around the block.

You probably can get a disk for $35 that will at least work and not have to worry about it exploding someplace 100 miles from home. Keep this clutch disk, it may be able to to be rebuilt it may be worth some money. There may be a rebuilder local to you but still will take a few days depending on how busy they are. Consider when I replaced my son's clutch the pressur plate, disk, and T/O bearing cost me $78. It met factory specs and that's all I cared about since he wasn't interested in smoking tires and street racing.
..............

As for the copper it may just be shavings impregnated in the friction material or the disk fingers/hub are a copper alloy. If it's berylium copper I will have mixed feelings for there are some problems with this alloy including catastrophic failure when used with it's spring qualities.

How far did you drive with the oil plug out? You should be able to shift gears by hand and spin the input shaft to determine if it;s gears and bearings. I can't tell you if the tranny was ready to let go but obviously the clutch was abused by someone driving the pis*s out of it speed shifting and spinning tires. This is of course very hard on transmission so nothing would surprise me. With the disk in this condition it could be difficult to shift since it won't release if chunks are trapped between disk and mating faces.

This brings me back to needing to know how thick your disk should have been when new. A quick search of the internet found the name... "Exedy Silver Box (DK)". You may find it here from some of the vendors. Consider you can design a pressure plate to take a 10mm disk and the factory calls for a 9mm which you stick in there, it's soon going to slip. I'm not saying it's true, but it could be and thus knowing becomes critically important and anything less could result in a clutch that doesn't last the 2 months.

Just another reason why I don't do mods for you don't know what was done, what parts were used, what specs were changed, and where to buy replacement parts for they want to protect "their secrets". yeah right.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[TSiWarrior]

Thanks man, you are one of the most helpful people on here yet! Would have been nice to have someone like you for help on my dsm's many other problems. As for your news, This is adding problems on and on and on.... My mom just informed me I have to get out of the house within a week (because I turn 19 in a week)... I just lost my job because I didnt have a car to get to/from argh! ... Maybe I can rig my car to work without 2nd gear but that doesnt seem too fun. The other tranny has all the gears but the casing got destroyed and the shaft that goes down by the starter and into the t-case? looks rather stripped. Murry's has the stock clutch setup (3 pice) for about $150 I'm not shure of that is right. Im not shure how long it's gunna hold up to my engine either, I just got done installing an evo III 16g.... No $$$ No Car... No home (In one week) Great!

If anyone has a cheap stock clutch set or maybe an ATC set that they can let go of cheap let me know asap... Detroit Michigan area.

 

[GTM]

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My mom just informed me I have to get out of the house within a week (because I turn 19 in a week)...

I just lost my job because I didnt have a car to get to/from argh! ... Maybe I can rig my car to work without 2nd gear but that doesnt seem too fun.

(3 pice) for about $150 I'm not shure of that is right. Im not shure how long it's gunna hold up to my engine either, I just got done installing an evo III 16g.... No $$$ No Car... No home (In one week) Great!

If anyone has a cheap stock clutch set or maybe an ATC set that they can let go of cheap let me know asap... Detroit Michigan area.

Um, er, out as in move out. I don't suppose you could change your birth certificate and get away with it. Maybe you can fall on your knees and ask for an extension until you can get on your feet. I can tell you that depending on a DSM as transportation is very foolish for they are so high maintenance. They are a fun car but that doesn't mix with obligations but no one told you that or that you must have reliable public transportation to get you where you need to go. The sign of awakening is when you decide you can't afford to be a slave to your car rather than you to it. My son offered to give me his TSI and I turned him down because I've been down that path in my youth and it's no longer fun.

The you should call around and locate just the disk. Yes, you can manage without 2nd gear, just have to wind it out another 1500-2,000 rpm, one saving grace is you will be less tempted to drive it hard and thus it becomes more reliable.

Put all the diversions away and take care of business, you had better be doing the dishes, laundry, vacuuming, scrubbing floors etc. If you had your own place you would be doing those things so no difference, don't wait to get told or asked.

Keep us posted on your progress,

Cheers,
GTM

 

[TSiWarrior]

I will keep you posted, and as for the chores and such as you said, I do all of them. The situation is a bad divorice I got stuck in the middle of and the mother decided to pretty much take it out on me because im "just like your father"... I'm going to go clutch shopping today to see what I can find, maybe trade some stuff to someone... Anyway keep you posted.

 

[GTM]

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as for the chores and such as you said, I do all of them. The situation is a bad
...
"just like your father"... I'm going to go clutch shopping today to see what I can find, maybe trade some stuff to someone... Anyway keep you posted.

Bummer, this is unrealistic and someone needs to sit them down so they understand to not abuse innocent family members. Using you to get at the other parent is something for Dr. Phil. This can never come to any good and will only cause resentment and make life even more complicated that it already is. I just can't imagine telling my kids you have to move out because you have reached xyz age, they know they always have a home. My daughter has her own place but may give that up when she enters nursing school, she's a year from a teaching credential but lost interest, got her EMT but they pay less than her current dead end job. My son is in school 2500 miles away but lives with us during the summer, as long as they are trying that's all any parent can ask.

Good luck with the clutch disk. Do call around and see if there are any rebuilders that can fix your disk for it might just prove to be cost effective. It's not that complicated, just a matter of having the correct materials and a little know how.

Cheers,
GTM