Block Oringed.. Where to get Orings.

[allrice4g63]

I am going to be pulling my head this weekend due to a headgasket failure. My coolant keeps boiling over, new thermostat, cap, burped, no oil in coolant,no coolant in oil,no smoke,good compression numbers etc....
Anyways when i bought my engine block it was already oringed around each cylinder using copper orings. So my question being is where do I find these orings and what style head gasket should I use.. Im thinking of going with a oem mitsu style and with the new orings it should create a solid seal.. Anybody that has this done to their engine feel free to chime in on where i can find new orings thank you.

 

[BogusSVO]

Check with JAM, a supporting vendor here on tuners.

They should have the supplies you need.

There are several threads on o ring blocks that JAM has posted in. You may want to look for them.

Good info about what HG to run with what Oring

 

[allrice4g63]

I read about 5 or 6 threads.. I didnt see where you could get new ones at though i will message him thank you.

 

[BogusSVO]

Most often the rings are installed at the machine shop.

It is common for it to be a "cut to fit"

 

[allrice4g63]

Most often the rings are installed at the machine shop.

It is common for it to be a "cut to fit"

maybe i will just leave the old ones in then.. I dont plan on running over 20 psi on a 16g anyways. I have arp headstuds i should be ok then just leaving them in and getting a oem headgasket.

 

[BogusSVO]

The O rings should be changed also.

It is a bit like reusing the HG. The rings deform from the head being torqued.

Seems copper rings are not the best method to use.

 

[viperlp01]

Ya man you must change them. Surprisingly I was in the local ACE hardware store in the bolt section and what do you know!! A spool of .030 copper wire and SS wire ... I didn't know they were into the whole high horsepower block building stuff.

 

[allrice4g63]

oh really thats all it is is wire? I was under the impression that it was special orings that you had to order.. So basically just take a feeler gauge and measure the width of the groove and the height and then just get copper wire that fits snug.
Do you think you could go a hair bigger for a little better lip, as copper should crush down pretty good when the head gets torqued down. Also what head gasket do you guys recommend.

Ya man you must change them. Surprisingly I was in the local ACE hardware store in the bolt section and what do you know!! A spool of .030 copper wire and SS wire ... I didn't know they were into the whole high horsepower block building stuff.

be nice to me

 

[viperlp01]

Techincally speaking all you are doing is adding bite into the fire ring of the head gasket(which already has its own O ring in it). So please run the right size wire. It should crush its way into the head gasket and potentially add sealing power(I am not an O-ring fan). Most o ring kits offer a 30 thou(.030) wire size. Your going to want to run a composite head gasket. My buddy is having good luck with a OEM mitsu headgasket but a Felpro should work fine.

 

[JacksonAuto]

The diameter of the wire will be dependent on how the grooves were machined. The wider the groove, the wider the wire. Each piece will have to be cut-to-fit. Again, dependent on how the block was machined.

If the gasket you're using has a built-in fire ring then you may think about filling in the grooves and assembling the engine without the o-rings. Also, if there are no receiver grooves in the head then you may think about not using the o-rings. If you don't have the means to fill the grooves and mill the deck smooth again, an alternative would be to press copper wire into them and use a composite head gasket. The maleable copper will compress a bit and any material that is protruding above the deck will be absorbed by the composite material as if it weren't there. I would not try this with a MLS gasket.

I see absolutely no need to utilize o-rings in a block that will see a mere 20psi.

 

[viperlp01]

The diameter of the wire will be dependent on how the grooves were machined. The wider the groove, the wider the wire. Each piece will have to be cut-to-fit. Again, dependent on how the block was machined.

If the gasket you're using has a built-in fire ring then you may think about filling in the grooves and assembling the engine without the o-rings. Also, if there are no receiver grooves in the head then you may think about not using the o-rings. If you don't have the means to fill the grooves and mill the deck smooth again, an alternative would be to press copper wire into them and use a composite head gasket. The maleable copper will compress a bit and any material that is protruding above the deck will be absorbed by the composite material as if it weren't there. I would not try this with a MLS gasket.

I see absolutely no need to utilize o-rings in a block that will see a mere 20psi.

If the block was machined using o rings wouldn't not using them hurt the PTW at the top of the bore? I have never back to back tested it but I could imagine it would wreck havoc on the deformation of the cylinder. But good explanation!

 

[JacksonAuto]

The o-rings should be positioned well away from the bore. Also, the forces of torquing the head down dont get transferred to the block through the o-rings. They are applied to the gasket, forcing it upward into the receiver groove.

Your thought is a theory that we once had as well so we tried it. I installed a torque plate with the rings out and measure the bores. Then, did the same thing with a copper gasket and stainless wire rings installed. No difference in the measurement of the bore.

 

[allrice4g63]

The diameter of the wire will be dependent on how the grooves were machined. The wider the groove, the wider the wire. Each piece will have to be cut-to-fit. Again, dependent on how the block was machined.

If the gasket you're using has a built-in fire ring then you may think about filling in the grooves and assembling the engine without the o-rings. Also, if there are no receiver grooves in the head then you may think about not using the o-rings. If you don't have the means to fill the grooves and mill the deck smooth again, an alternative would be to press copper wire into them and use a composite head gasket. The maleable copper will compress a bit and any material that is protruding above the deck will be absorbed by the composite material as if it weren't there. I would not try this with a MLS gasket.

I see absolutely no need to utilize o-rings in a block that will see a mere 20psi.

I have my 14b maxed at 22 psi with good afr, no knock and i ran a 13.03 on a 14b so i am going to be running around 18 psi on a 16g. But as you stated 20 psi should require no modifcation to the orings. I am and will be going to a bigger turbo setup as money and time permits. But then again the head will be coming off first to upgrade cams,valves,springs etc, when that time comes then i will worry about new orings for now im just gonna use a oem mitsu head gasket.. Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I did not say that it didn't require modification of the o-rings. I said that at those boost levels there is no need for o-rings at all.

The need for o-rings arises when the cylinder heads' ability to seal is exceeded. You must realize that Mitsubishi did not engineer their engines to run extremely high cylinder pressures. When you try pushing high boost through one of these engines, the head will actually lift up off of the deck. No amount of fancy studs or high-tech gaskets will seal when this happens. That's where o-rings come into play and help seal the cylinders, even when the head lifts. If you are not at this level (which you are not with 20psi) you will not see any benefit to keeping the o-rings in your engine. They will actually be more trouble than they're worth. Too often o-rings are used as a band aid for crummy tuning or a poor engine combination.